Scaled Aventail -- myArmoury.com

Nick Esposito · Posted: Sun 02 Jan, 2011 12:38 pm Post subject: Scaled Aventail

I came across this image in an Osprey Book about the Hundred Years War and I was interested to find a Aventail or Camail made of small square plates, or "scales". Is their historical evidence that validates this? It certainly is the first time Ive seen such an application.

The Caption Reads: The infantry of France (1360-1415 gg.): 1 - arbalester suite of Jean de Angers (ca. 1407), 2 - the militia of Rennes (c. 1370), 3 - light infantry from the south of France (c. 1400 city).

There are no numbers so I cant tell who is who.

Craig Shackleton · Posted: Sun 02 Jan, 2011 1:37 pm Post subject:

I'd have to double-check, but I'm pretty sure that the Gladiatoria fechtbucher show what appear to be scale aventails like that. I know that they show that style of scale covering the foot occasionally, and elsewhere as well, but it may be a skirt/fauld and not an aventail. If the dates that I have heard for these books are correct, they don't really correspond to that image, but I wouldn't be surprised if at least some of the Gladiatoria group are much earlier than is generally stated, or that they are copied from earlier works.

Not much to go on, but I hope it helps.

EDIT: I just did a quick scan of the images I have, and in fact there are no aventails that match your picture. I did find both skirts and foot armour though.

Randall Moffett · Posted: Sun 02 Jan, 2011 3:56 pm Post subject:

Well there are some I can think of.

The Holkham Bible has a few and the Tewkesbury Abby window-piece has a few others.

RPM

Nick Esposito · Posted: Mon 03 Jan, 2011 12:14 pm Post subject:

Accidental post. Sorry Blush

Nick Esposito · Posted: Mon 03 Jan, 2011 12:15 pm Post subject:

Thanks to the direction of Randall Moffett, I was able to find a depiction of this "scaled Aventail" In the The Abbey of the Blessed Virgin Mary in Tewkesbury, England. Also on another note, the 3rd Knight down from the left has only one arm in full plate harness, the other is in Maille with a couter. Wonder why that is? For those who are having trouble seeing the details, You can enlarge the Image by putting your cursor on it and right clicking then select "open Image" .

Here is the Window.

Image rights reserved NeilWildin Photography

Elling Polden · Posted: Mon 03 Jan, 2011 3:22 pm Post subject:

Nathan F · Posted: Wed 05 Jan, 2011 4:36 am Post subject:

i spent a good while trying to find any actual evidence of scale armour during the medieval period and found none there was plenty in artwork but much of it was on saracens goliath all evil characters there was also plenty on some knights and effigy's but i have never seen a single find so i still dont know.

Christian G. Cameron · Posted: Wed 05 Jan, 2011 5:20 am Post subject:

I'm going to guess that he didn't feel he needed a plate rerebrace under his shield--and that this is the transitional period... Have a date? Is this 1340-60?

Randall Moffett · Posted: Wed 05 Jan, 2011 6:37 am Post subject:

I think it is hard to say why one has two full arms, one one, and two mail with some plate additions. My guess is the shield is a good reason the one gent has full plate on his right arm though. Perhaps personal preference played a part in how they armed in this way. I find it more comfy to have just mail with some plate on my shield arm but after a few random hits now wear it on both arms. All I can say is that by this point full arms show up fairly often in text so they were about.

Nathan,

Since there is a small percent/almost no armour from pre 1350 I think this lack of evidence is not just limited to scale. If we did not use art, literature and other sources to complement the archaeology we'd know very little about armour before 1350, perhaps even the 15th century. The fact it shows up in so much art on westerners makes me think it unlikely it was not in some use.

RPM