I just completed my first piece of art based on research from this site. Here are my questions:

1. Did I catch the look and feel of a basic Oakeshott Type XII?

2. I know the medallion is too small, and feathers are exaggerated. I did employ artistic license, especially in the decision to use leather gloves, rather than mail mitts.

3. Is that a decent mid 13th C. great helm configuration? I got my inspiration from Chad Arnow's ID pic and Chuck Russell's collection (Pg. 3 in Show Us Your Helms ( Historical Arms Talk) Thank you, gentlemen

4. I participated in a discussion about the use of crests on helms. I decided to use a crest and 13th C. veiling. From what I have read here, rolls were not yet in use in the Mid 13th C.

GO FOR IT, PEOPLE! I NEED SOME CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM.

Thanks, everyone:

Michele

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Feral Knight: Michele Hansen: Pastel on paper

I see what you mean about the junction as the location for the eye slits. That was a very amateur error I made. Are the metal plates around the slits, and down the nasal welded? If not, how were they attached? I figured they would have been riveted on because the armorers wanted to strengthen those vulnerable areas.

I really need to handle a few good great helm reproductions, and make live sketches to get this right. Does anyone know of an armor maker in the Seattle area who makes good 13th C. - 14th C. helms?

I know a lot of you who are in SCA are very good at researching. Please keep the feedback, and research tips coming. I suppose this will be a decent art piece for Norwescon after all. Although, art is meant to imitate life, not copy it like a photograph, this piece is fantasy, not history.

I tried, and obviously failed, to maintain the hexagonal profile to the sword tip. The sword in my drawing is heavily foreshortened. It is not intended to taper like a XIIa. Type XII blades are heavier, and taper less than XIIa, but still have thrusting tips, yes? Can you point me to an example that clearly shows the configuration of the tip?

I have done sketches of Maciejowski Bible illustrations. The era I am trying to illustrate is specifically England, 1260-1280 which includes the 2nd Barons War, and the 8th-9th Crusades. I suppose there are changes in helms, and blades even in those 20 years.

Back to the old drawing board...

And Chad? Thank you so much for your straight-up feedback.

Cheers!

Michele

Personally I have never seen a leather rim on any sheld, but I'm no specialist in XIIIth. century. It does, however, seem very, very unlikely, especially in a configuartion that you have shown on the painting(which is gorgeous and makes me wish I had a 1/4 of your talent and skill). Leather was indeed used on shields, but usually in form of thin parchment leather that covered the entire front and back and was not visible under canvas and paint.

I still think it's a pretty cool picture at any rate :lol:

Chad Arnow Wrote:

"Not many great helms have the metal reinforcing bands that are so often seen in modern reproductions."

Uh, Chad, the Maciejowski Bible is loaded with helms that use those reinforcing bands. :confused: Maybe they were most popular in Poland?

"There is at least one famous helm (dated to ca. 1280), shown in our great helm spotlight, that has the reinforcing bands...The bands are riveted on, as you can see some and holes where others are now missing."

Chad! You Rock! I found, and then lost that image, but it was the one I was trying to copy for my illustration. Thanks so much for posting it here!. :D

"A typical Type XII will not have a hexagonal section at all, but rather a lenticular section...Type XII spotlight...has many examples of this form. It's worth checking out."

Oakeshott XII is lenticular. Good. Lesson learned. I'm still stuck on that sword tip configuration. I did some sketches from the spotlight article. i just blew it in execution--simple as that. I love that configuration chart.

Christopher Domanski wrote:

"I have never seen a leather rim on any sheld...Leather was indeed used on shields, but usually in form of thin parchment leather that covered the entire front and back and was not visible under canvas and paint."

Hi, Christopher: It's nice to meet you. I stole that leather rim idea from a couple of members who posted shields they owned or made. They were both heaters, so I figured I was in the ballpark. I owe them each credit when I find their posts again. Were the shields always wood base, or did they use metal? As far as the use of that rim in the illustration, chalk it up to another example of artistic license.

Christopher, Sam, and Chad:

Thank you so much for the nice complements. As I stated, art imitates life, but it also tells a story. I believe some level of historical accuracy, will give more relevance to my paintings.

To me, it seems that the sword is way too short, given the angle at which it's pictured.

Thanks for your feedback on this guy. I had a blast, learned a lot, and then let my muse take over, as we artists often do. He's on Deviant Art (mhahse57) if you want to see a larger version. xoxo

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The final painting looks more subtle in using finer brush strokes and closer to photographic reality than the first painting.

It depends on your objectives as to style and realistic illustrative qualities i.e. there are historically so many styles of painting from photo realism to total abstraction to conceptual art that one can only judge the success of a painting if one knows the intent of the artist.

That said I think it's better, at least to my tastes, than the first one at the beginning of this Topic.

I think I have a good idea of period armour and arms but I'm certainly not an expert in the close details of period fashions to be able to spot any errors of construction, materials or style or time period of use, but overall this painting look good to me. :D :cool:

My only comment from an accuracy perspective is that I don't think plumes/mantles etc. were used on helms for that period. I don't think they started to come into play until around 1300.

Basing the helm off the Dargen helm (as in your 2nd pic) was a good call for 1280.

<Edit> Just noticed the hand. Mail Mittens please!