[Mark T]

I've recently become interested in The Wallace Collection's A466, Oakeshott type XVIII sword:



From the Wallace's page for this sword:

[Maurizio D'Angelo]

The level of detail is excellent.
With a guard like that I would be surprised that I was not Italian.
Thanks for sharing, Mark.

[Chad Arnow]

[Maurizio D'Angelo]

[Chad Arnow]

Mark,
I think this is a beautiful sword, one of the most visually splendid examples out there.

Carlo's book on the Wallace Collection does not picture this sword (unless I missed it thumbing through it just now).

Below is some more info (though most of it isn't that detailed), from various Wallace Collection Publications, including the catalogue you'll received soon.

They're in chronological order by date of publication.

[William Knight]

I wonder how many other horn-gripped swords there are out there? I'd always missed that detail before.

The shape of the grip is also kind of odd, it looks rather 'ergonomical'.

[Mark T]

Thanks for all the replies, and to Chad for the extra descriptions and image ... it's interesting how different lighting (such as in the photo from Edge's pamphlet) can highlight different details, even though it's not a close-up.

Now, the location and dating: curiouser and curiouser!

In 1924, Camp says 'Italian'; in 1964, Mann adds '(?)' after 'Italian', while Edge (1992) seemed confident in 'North Italian or Southern German' - he didn't preface that with 'probably', for example. Given that Oakeshott (1991) didn't give any proposal for its origin, I find it interesting that the Wallace Collection now categorically lists it as being Italian - they obviously have access to these other sources, which seem to suggest this isn't definite. I wonder if some other details came to light in more recent research there ... or if someone simply missed the question-mark in Mann, for example.

Does anyone have Norman's Supplement to the catalogues (1986) and would be happy to see if he has to say anything about it?

I'm also interested in the variance of the dates: Camp, Mann, and the current Wallace description give c. 1460, while Oakeshott places an earlier range of 1440-1460, and Edge gives the later range of 1450-1475 ... obviously, all in a roughly-similar timeframe, but I'm curious about what would have prompted Oakeshott to go early, and Edge to go late.

Fun stuff!

[Chad Arnow]

[Chad Arnow]

Here's the info from the Wallace Supplement:

[Julien M]

[Zach Luna]

This might be common knowledge by now, but A&A currently has a reproduction based on this sword up for sale on their "Muster" page, with a pommel molded from the original piece:

http://www.arms-n-armor.com/muster.html



I think it's a beautiful rendition of this striking artifact.

I figured others interested in this sword might appreciate this lovely bit of work from Arms & Armour.

[Mark T]

Hi Zach,

Thanks for adding those pics to this thread. That sword is what got me interested in researching the original - I'd not really been drawn to type V ('fishtail') pommels before, but to see the detail and the complex lines on Arms & Armor's reproduction really gave me a different perspective.

For the sake of completeness of the thread (and because the info won't be on A&A's site for much longer), I'll copy their text about the sword here - it makes an interesting point about those complex lines:

[Mark T]

Here are some of the images mentioned in the sources above for Type V ('fishtail') pommels in period art. While they're not images of the Wallace A466 as such, I think they add to our knowledge about this type of sword, show indicative date ranges for when this type was common, and provide a visual reference for what Mann, Oakeshott, and Norman refer to in their references/comparisons.

Hans Memling, The Virgin and Child with Angel Saint Georges and Donor,1470-1480:

[Mark T]

Here's another by Michael Pacher, c.1465-1470, courtesy of Wikimedia Commons:

[Mark T]

And, while we're collating comparisons / reference points for the Wallace A466, here's another image of the Cluny sword, Oakehott's XVIII. 4 (iii) in Records. Photo by Mathieu Harlaut from this thread.

[Mark T]

Here's another look at the Wallace A466, from myArmoury's own spotlight article on Oakeshott Type XVIII Swords:

[Julien M]

Hi Mark,

More shots of the Cluny fishtail taken during my last stay in Paris.






Cheers,

Julien

[Mark T]

On the question of origin on the A466 and similar types: Clive Thomas' recent article on the Castillon swords has some interesting things to say. The A466 is similar in overall design to the 'Group B' swords from Castillon. Here are the relevant quotes:

[Carlo Paggiarino]

[Mark T]

Hi Carlo,

Thanks for resurrecting this thread ... I'd forgotten how rich it had become!

I had since picked up your Wallace book, and enjoy it very much ... and have come to have a much better appreciation for the details you capture so well!

Regards,

Mark