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Larry R
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 Posted: Fri 05 Nov, 2010 5:06 pm Post subject: 12 century kit |
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I am very new at this so please bare with me. I am trying to complete a 12th century knight kit (first- second crusade). I have the arms , 12th century sword, Crusader dagger, 12th century spear (all from Arms and Armor) and am now working on the armor and clothes. I am having trouble with the helm, pants, shoes. I was thinking of the Norman Spangen Helmet from medieval-fightclub.com? Is this correct for Western Europe 12th century? I've been doing some research, but specifics seem hard to come by. Thanks for any help!
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Jean Thibodeau
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Larry R
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| Posted: Fri 05 Nov, 2010 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the info. I like the Conical Spangenhelm and am considering it. I do not want any helm with butted mail however. I'm actually thinking of making my own shield. I read a post that said that the merctailor may not be accepting any more orders? Maybe I'm mistaken. Thanks for the links for the soft kit as I have not explored this site. 
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Fri 05 Nov, 2010 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Larry R wrote: | | Thanks for the info. I like the Conical Spangenhelm and am considering it. I do not want any helm with butted mail however. I'm actually thinking of making my own shield. I read a post that said that the merctailor may not be accepting any more orders? Maybe I'm mistaken. Thanks for the links for the soft kit as I have not explored this site. |
Yes that is mistaken the title of that Topic was that Mercenary Tailor was worried about being able to stay in business because of low order rate: If you read past the first post you will see that people responded positively and made enough orders that he decided to stay in business.
Allan has one of the best reputations for good customer service and lots of people here want to help keep him in business.
As to the Spangenhelm: The specific one I linked to doesn't have an attached mail aventaille and you could buy a mail riveted coif to wear under the Spangenhelm. Oh, get an arming cap for padding since maille directly on one's head with a helm over it is not comfortable to say the least and you need padding between the maille and your head bones even when the helm itself has a good suspension system and it's own padding.
Her is a source for riveted maille from another reliable vendor::
http://www.kultofathena.com/armor-body.asp
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Larry R
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| Posted: Sat 06 Nov, 2010 9:21 am Post subject: |
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Thank you very much for the great info and links! I'm glad Allen is staying in business. Thanks again!
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Scott Hrouda
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| Posted: Sat 06 Nov, 2010 12:00 pm Post subject: Re: 12 century kit |
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| Larry R wrote: | | I am very new at this so please bare with me. I am trying to complete a 12th century knight kit (first- second crusade). I have the arms , 12th century sword, Crusader dagger, 12th century spear (all from Arms and Armor) and am now working on the armor and clothes. I am having trouble with the helm, pants, shoes. I was thinking of the Norman Spangen Helmet from medieval-fightclub.com? Is this correct for Western Europe 12th century? I've been doing some research, but specifics seem hard to come by. Thanks for any help! |
Welcome Larry!
Jean posted quite a few good links for you; enough to keep you occupied for a while. Judging from the high quality start to your kit, might I also suggest you look at the Arms & Armor Spangenhelm or the A&A Norman Conical Helm. Craig Johnson of A&A is an active member of this forum and has a wealth of knowledge. Send him a PM as he might be able to point you in the right direction. Since you live in the same city, you might want to stop by the armoury (after calling first). They're on Stinson Boulevard near Broadway.
For your riveted mail I would recommend Icefalcon Armoury or Cap-a-pie.
Good luck! It's nice to see another Twin Cities armour junkie on the forum. 
...and that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana shaped. - Sir Bedevere
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Larry R
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| Posted: Sat 06 Nov, 2010 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Scott. I actualy have stopped by Arms and Armor and have met Craig. He is very helpful and very pleasant to do business with. Their quality (as far as I'm concerned) is second to none. I was just hoping for a more economical helm. The Mercenary Tailer helm actualy caught my eye even before I posted. Now that I know it is period for my needs (and Allen is going strong) I am seriously considering it. My finances just need to catch up to my taste!
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Matthew Amt
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| Posted: Sat 06 Nov, 2010 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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Wouldn't a round-topped helmet be more accurate for the 12th century? Been a while since I looked at that, so I may be misremembering, but I thought the conical form was good for the 11th century but then a more globular shape became fashionable. Pretty sure a spangenhelm construction would be passe, as well. Don't take my word for it, though!
On the other hand (or leg!), no pants! Hosen and braies are what you want.
http://www.larp.com/midgard/braies.htm
http://www.larp.com/midgard/hosen.htm
Have fun!
Matthew
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Sun 07 Nov, 2010 4:54 am Post subject: |
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| Matthew Amt wrote: | | Wouldn't a round-topped helmet be more accurate for the 12th century? |
Even if a little out of fashion I think the conical Spangenhelm continued to be used for quite a while, but if Larry wants a rounded top Allan might be willing to make it that way as some of his other helms have rounded tops.
Minor customisation is definately as possibility in this case and it's a good idea to ask Allan about any modification or additions one wants for any of his standard line of product.
Now a full custom project might t be more expensive since Allan might have to experiment a bit to get the correct pattern, with his standard line he knows exactly how to cut a plate to be able to raise it to the right shape with minimum wastage and minimum time to make it.
Here is one by Allan that already has a rounded top: http://www.merctailor.com/catalog/product_inf...ucts_id=68
If you don't like the butted maille you could ask for it without a ventail. ( Would probably cost less, not sure if Allan could get a riveted maille coif from another source and modify it into an attached to the rounded helm ventail ? Just ideas but the easiest thing is to just e-mail Allan and ask him ...... the worse he can say is no, but if the custom alterations are something he can easily do he should be willing to make what you want ).
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Larry R
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| Posted: Mon 08 Nov, 2010 7:58 am Post subject: |
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My research (limited that it is) also points to a round helm. I'm not looking to be accurate to a particular year, but early 12th century is what I'm going for. Thanks for all the great advice and links!
Off topic---how do you quote a reply or part of a reply in a new post?
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Gary Venable
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| Posted: Mon 08 Nov, 2010 8:14 am Post subject: |
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I actually have Allan's Conical Helm http://www.merctailor.com/catalog/product_inf...ucts_id=62 as well as several other pieces by him. I would add that the pictures on the site don't do his work justice and that helm is very nice and I am extremely happy with it. I would also second what Jean said about Allan customer service, the one time I had an issue he went above and beyond to make it right.
Gary
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Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Mon 08 Nov, 2010 8:33 am Post subject: |
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| Larry R wrote: | | Off topic---how do you quote a reply or part of a reply in a new post? |
Hit the Quote button on the post you want to quote. It looks like this: 
ChadA
http://chadarnow.com/
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Zach Gordon
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| Posted: Mon 08 Nov, 2010 11:14 am Post subject: |
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I always heard that the later period nasal helms (and by 12th cent you are starting to get into the later period use of it) were made of single sheet construction.
The spangen style seemed to die out earlier.
Thats at least what Ive always heard,
Z
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Gregory J. Liebau
Location: Dinuba, CA Joined: 27 Nov 2004
Posts: 669
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Larry R
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| Posted: Mon 08 Nov, 2010 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the link! My German is a little rusty (I have now idea what thier saying), but do you think that in pic H and in pic Q3 they may be representing piece construction? I have no idea, just asking. In pic I2 the lines in the helm, are they just overlay or thicker parts of the same piece of metal? In pic S2 are the lines just decorations and not structural? Thanks for the great link!
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Larry R
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| Posted: Mon 08 Nov, 2010 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Chad Arnow wrote: | | Larry R wrote: | | Off topic---how do you quote a reply or part of a reply in a new post? |
Hit the Quote button on the post you want to quote. It looks like this:  |
Thanks!! 
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Larry R
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| Posted: Fri 17 Dec, 2010 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you to everyone who posted and gave me links/advise on my kit. I have some more questions. What type of pouch was used in the early 12th century? Would a drawstring pouch be used, kidney shaped, or something different? Is a ring belt accurate? Thanks
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This is a standard topic