[Sander Alsters]

Hi,
I'm searching for fighting techniques regarding the Kilij or Shamshir. Has anyone ever came accros such techniques? Or knows of their existence? Maybe from the Ottoman period? Or other offcourse.

Kind regards,

Sander.

[Lafayette C Curtis]

There is a Persian manual in the process of translation(?), and I think there's also a Mamluk furusiyya manual with a translated version already available from a specialty publisher. The Munyatu'l Ghuzat, maybe. But I don't know how much information it has on sworsdmanship, if indeed it had any at all.

[Sean Manning]

While I haven't read them, I don't think the Mamluk material has much on strongly curved swords: I think they mostly appear in the 14th and 15th centuries and later.

Manouchehr Khorasani is leading a project to analyze and publish Iranian Fechtbooks. Most of his work is in German and Spanish so this may not help you. We have a lot of Western European sources on fighting with strongly curved swords from the 18th and 19th centuries.

[Lafayette C Curtis]

Yes, you're right--the Mamluk manuals probably have little (if any) specifically on handling deeply-curved swords. It might be worthwhile to study the basic principles that possibly applied equally to straight and curved swords alike and thus might have survived even after the Turkic fashion of curved swords swept through the area in the 15th or 16th century or so. Otherwise, we might just well be stuck with nothing since we seem to have even fewer Turkish military training manuals than Mamluk ones.

[Harry J. Fletcher]

Since the sabre was derived from the Kalij and the Shamshir I would suggest that fighting techniques used for sabres be looked into since I would think that they are basically the same or least very similar,The curved blade was found to be an excellent cut and thrust weapon which is why cavalry units adopted it for their troops. It came from the Mongols via the Persians to the Turks and Mamluks and up through the Balkans into Austria and Hungry and thence into western Europe. Used from horseback it delivers a sweeping cut while still being able to use its point for a thrust.

I have a Shamshir and found that it can cut very tough tatami omote much better than a straight edged medieval sword at least for me and with less effort. the Kalij with the wider blade near the point provides the weight necessary to cut thru mail in opinion. Austria used this feature in some of its sabres.

See if you can get a copy of CUT AND THRUST WEAPONS by Eduard Wagner published by Spring Books. I found mine thru the book section on this site.

Regards,

Harry

[Sander Alsters]

Thank you everybody for the information. I will look into CUT AND THRUST WEAPONS by Eduard Wagner. I'm familiar with the book(s) of Manouchehr Khorasani. Also planning on ordering his latest book when it comes out.

Further more, I can read and speak English and German so any fechtbücher in those languages will come in helpfull.

And last, another question, do you guys think that the Mamluk manuals on straight swords, or any other middle eastern manuals for that matter, differ much from the western? I can imagine many techniques to be the same, simply because they work! Does anyone have a idea or opinion about this?

Kind Regards,

Sander

[Lafayette C Curtis]