myArmoury.com - My German Longsword Technique or Lack-There-Of

Posts: 416 Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Mon 16 Aug, 2010 7:02 pm

Michael Edelson wrote:

Some good advice here on training swords, but don't get too caught up on what you're practicing with. Definitely not so much that you stop practicing until you get something else.

When one of my students complained of low ceilings, I gave her this:

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A good sword is important, but in a pinch, you can get away with almost any sword like object. What's important is that you practice.

This is my favourite Michael Edelson quote ever!

When I lived in Fiji, I practiced my jianshu forms with a meter-long steel ruler I duct-taped to make a handle... And I actually got a little better.

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Michael Edelson

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Posts: 1,032 Location: New York

Mon 16 Aug, 2010 8:19 pm

Bennison N wrote:

This is my favourite Michael Edelson quote ever!

Wait...there are other "Michael Edelson quotes"???????

:)

btw...for those who are wondering what that thing is...it's a fish grill.

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Colt Reeves

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Posts: 466

Mon 16 Aug, 2010 11:02 pm

Heh, Fighting with the German Longsword is already on my list. Other things I'm considering are the Extreme Fencing, Boar's Tooth Fightschool, German Medieval Martial Arts Volume I: The Poleaxe, The Messer of Johannes Leckuchner, and The Longsword of Johannes Liechtenauer, Volume I DVDs. I'm thinking some moving pictures might help a little. I've looked at books for other martial arts before and sometimes a neat little diagram and a description can be incredibly difficult to figure out.

And Jean, I was waiting on Michael to say something, but I personally doubt he is advocating two or more people doing drills, much less bouting, with sharps. Maybe I'm wrong and trying to put words in his mouth, but I think doing drills on your own with a sharp is as risky as it should get. I for one would be a little concerned if I had an instructor who told me and someone else to free play with sharps.

Michael Edelson wrote:

Quote:

btw...for those who are wondering what that thing is...it's a fish grill.

I thought that's what it was, but I wasn't going to be the first to ask. :D

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Alen L

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Posts: 63 Location: Ljubljana, SLovenia

Tue 17 Aug, 2010 2:27 am

Colt Reeves wrote:

Alen, you say I am not facing my opponent. How so? My body? Feet? Sword? I thought I was fairly good on that account, though I tend to slouch and look down most of the time. (I have found in the past that I prefer to watch an opponent's body rather than arms or face. On the other hand, I usually lost sparring matches, so...)

Feet, and sword are good, but your torso's facing another way completely. For the eyes... I would say it's best to watch an opponent in the shoulders. Like that, you can see him completely, plus, you'll notice the movement of the arms quickly.

Regards!

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Jean Thibodeau

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Posts: 8,310 Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada

Tue 17 Aug, 2010 5:58 am

Alen L wrote:

Colt Reeves wrote:

Alen, you say I am not facing my opponent. How so? My body? Feet? Sword? I thought I was fairly good on that account, though I tend to slouch and look down most of the time. (I have found in the past that I prefer to watch an opponent's body rather than arms or face. On the other hand, I usually lost sparring matches, so...)

Feet, and sword are good, but your torso's facing another way completely. For the eyes... I would say it's best to watch an opponent in the shoulders. Like that, you can see him completely, plus, you'll notice the movement of the arms quickly.

Regards!

As to looking where I think it's more like looking "HOW ": I think of it as the 1000 yard stare not focused on anything in particular but very much being conscious of peripheral vision. I also think that this sort of looking calms the mind and is almost a kind of meditation in motion.

Oh one fun exercise we do in our longsword training is to have one against two or one against three where there is one defender and numerous attackers. The attackers are allowed to do one attack each at a time or almost all at once, the defender must avoid or parry the attacks and can in addition defend while staying menacing or with single time defence/counter attacks.

There is a lot of moving around to avoid being surrounded and putting one attacker in front of the others to limit the number of attackers who can get to you at the same time: The point is that one can't focus on one thing or one opponent and that situational awareness and peripheral vision is absolutely essential.

To keep this fair the attackers do one attack at a time and don't follow up with other things they might do in a bout or duel, the defender has no time to think and just has to do his best to defend with what he knows using the right guard matching the right attack. ( Or whatever works, " works " ! Note we also control our blows in a non-touch training style and pull or blows if there are light touches. We do use fencing masks even if we are not supposed to touch light blows will happen from time to time ..... we just don't wail on each other or try to hit hard at all to keep it safe ).

This is just an occasional " stress " exercise and is a lot of fun but certainly not the core training method which are instead drilling the various master cuts and other techniques in a cooperative " patient " and learning the technique " agent " the patient giving the agent the ideal situation where the technique should work.

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Michael Edelson

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Posts: 1,032 Location: New York

Tue 17 Aug, 2010 6:54 am

Colt Reeves wrote:

And Jean, I was waiting on Michael to say something, but I personally doubt he is advocating two or more people doing drills, much less bouting, with sharps. Maybe I'm wrong and trying to put words in his mouth, but I think doing drills on your own with a sharp is as risky as it should get. I for one would be a little concerned if I had an instructor who told me and someone else to free play with sharps.

That's correct, I was advocating solo practice only.

However, in the interest of full disclosure, I do believe in paired drills with sharps at much higher experience levels (much, much, much higher). There is nothing better to really drive home what you're doing and how dangerous it is.

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Jean Thibodeau

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Posts: 8,310 Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada

Tue 17 Aug, 2010 7:20 am

Michael Edelson wrote:

Colt Reeves wrote:

And Jean, I was waiting on Michael to say something, but I personally doubt he is advocating two or more people doing drills, much less bouting, with sharps. Maybe I'm wrong and trying to put words in his mouth, but I think doing drills on your own with a sharp is as risky as it should get. I for one would be a little concerned if I had an instructor who told me and someone else to free play with sharps.

That's correct, I was advocating solo practice only.

However, in the interest of full disclosure, I do believe in paired drills with sharps at much higher experience levels (much, much, much higher). There is nothing better to really drive home what you're doing and how dangerous it is.

Yeah, that's what I also meant about only at the " masters " or very very advanced student level with nerves of steel and both complete physical and emotional control of one's sharp swords.

The pucker factor alone is one that once felt can be remembered to bout more realistically when using blunts, so it may be very useful training and probably essential training in period when one was training for potentially real combat with swords.

I think for most if not all of us, not to mention beginners, training with sharps should be approached with great care and this only with solo training.

For paired training with sharps I think the only safe way would be in the context of training in a traditional martial art that trains this way and under the supervision of " masters " of the art if one has achieved the necessary level of competence and in accepting the very real risks !

Anyway, a very rarified level that most of us will never attain or worth the risks for those of us doing it for fun. ;) :cool:

( NOTE: My respects to Michael who known a great deal more about this as I'm mostly speculating based on what I hope is sound logic but I certainly have no practical experience here ! ).

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Michael Edelson

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Posts: 1,032 Location: New York

Tue 17 Aug, 2010 7:25 am

Jean Thibodeau wrote:

The pucker factor alone is one that once felt can be remembered to bout more realistically when using blunts, so it may be very useful training and probably essential training in period when one was training for potentially real combat with swords.

Yep, that's the idea.

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Michael Edelson

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Posts: 1,032 Location: New York

Tue 17 Aug, 2010 12:33 pm

Jean Thibodeau wrote:

( NOTE: My respects to Michael who known a great deal more about this as I'm mostly speculating based on what I hope is sound logic but I certainly have no practical experience here ! ).

I'm no expert either...just a student like most of us. The key thing is to always be a student, right up until you put the sword down or die. The degree of my ignorance is demonstrated every time I strap on an obi, and I love every minute of it.

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Bennison N

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Posts: 416 Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Tue 17 Aug, 2010 1:34 pm

Michael Edelson wrote:

The key thing is to always be a student, right up until you put the sword down or die.

And there's another one! :)

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