| Author |
Message |
Felix Dale
Location: wales (only studying here) Joined: 16 Sep 2009
Posts: 23
|
|
  |
 |
|
Connor Ruebusch
Location: Cincinnati Joined: 10 Nov 2009
Posts: 97
|
 Posted: Fri 13 Aug, 2010 9:31 am Post subject: |
 |
|
It does appear that the fellow who made the claim in that forum page you cited states that they are replicas made by himself. So no, the chapel de fer seen there is not an 11th century helm, but I believe it is meant to be a replica of one.
Connor
|
|
|
|
|
Greg Coffman
|
| Posted: Fri 13 Aug, 2010 9:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
Obviously they are not original pieces and that is not the question. The question is, did the Chapel-de fer see use in the 11th century or did it only come about after?
For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.
-Hebrews 4:12
|
|
|
|
|
Felix Dale
Location: wales (only studying here) Joined: 16 Sep 2009
Posts: 23
|
| Posted: Fri 13 Aug, 2010 10:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Greg Coffman wrote: | | Obviously they are not original pieces and that is not the question. The question is, did the Chapel-de fer see use in the 11th century or did it only come about after? |
this is correct
Thats what being a gentleman is all about!
|
|
|
|
|
Chuck Russell
|
| Posted: Fri 13 Aug, 2010 11:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
|
not 11th century. i would say late 12th thru 14th centurys
|
|
  |
|
Artis Aboltins
|
| Posted: Fri 13 Aug, 2010 2:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
Actually, that looks like not very well executed variation of chapel de fer shown in "Techniques of medieval armour reproduction", and there it is presented as 14th century helmet so...
|
|
|
|
|
Felix Dale
Location: wales (only studying here) Joined: 16 Sep 2009
Posts: 23
|
| Posted: Fri 13 Aug, 2010 2:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
no chance for a 11th century steel HAT then.
confound it.
oh well, thankyou for your time gentlemen.
Thats what being a gentleman is all about!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Connor Ruebusch
Location: Cincinnati Joined: 10 Nov 2009
Posts: 97
|
| Posted: Fri 13 Aug, 2010 6:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Ah, I see. Sorry for misinterpreting. Yes, I would agree with the others here. I don't think it saw use until at least the 12th, century. On a related note, does anyone here know of an example of a kettle hat with nasal, and how early they showed up?
Connor
|
|
|
|
|
Chuck Russell
|
|
|
|
|
David Huggins
|
| Posted: Fri 13 Aug, 2010 11:04 pm Post subject: Kettle hat |
|
|
Hi
Without going to the 'library' if I recall correctly one of the ivory Isle of Lewis gaming pieces also has a piece in which a 'knight' is wearing a broad brimmed helm.
The pieces are dated to the 12th C.
best
Dave
and he who stands and sheds blood with us, shall be as a brother.
|
|
 |
|
Patrik Erik Lars Lindblom
|
| Posted: Fri 13 Aug, 2010 11:49 pm Post subject: Re: Kettle hat |
|
|
| David Huggins wrote: | Hi
Without going to the 'library' if I recall correctly one of the ivory Isle of Lewis gaming pieces also has a piece in which a 'knight' is wearing a broad brimmed helm.
The pieces are dated to the 12th C.
best
Dave |
 It sounds like the usual problem, here (Sweden) we dont say 12th Century,
we say 11 hundred "Talet" (engl, Number, math term), so when we say it some "folk and fä" thinking 1000-1099,
sure some other contrys say it like that to. 
Frid o Fröjd!
Patrik
|
|
|
|
|
Felix Dale
Location: wales (only studying here) Joined: 16 Sep 2009
Posts: 23
|
| Posted: Sat 14 Aug, 2010 2:47 am Post subject: |
|
|
so when some people say 11th century they mean the century BEFORE it?
My group is, as our homepage says, "1135-1215
Historia Normannis is a 12th century reenactment group, focusing primarily on the events between the reign of Henry I and King John."
and I have searched high and low for ANY kettlehat within those years. but no.
oh well, guess I'll just have to find a funky looking norman helmet.
http://www.armurerie-du-vaucluse.com//boutiqu...-large.jpg like this maybe
Thats what being a gentleman is all about!
|
|
|
|
|
Marko Susimetsa
|
| Posted: Sat 14 Aug, 2010 2:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Felix Dale wrote: | | so when some people say 11th century they mean the century BEFORE it? |
No, they mean the 11th century.
As in:
1st century - years 1 - 100
2nd century - years 101 - 200
.
.
.
11th century - years 1001 - 1100
12th century - years 1101 - 1200
|
|
|
|
|
Marko Susimetsa
|
| Posted: Sat 14 Aug, 2010 3:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
|
Some people may be confused by the term~ "twelfth-hundreds" which means years 1200 - 1299. In many languages that's the way centuries are referred to (as in my own Finnish), but in English it works the way I said above in the previous message.
|
|
|
|
|
Felix Dale
Location: wales (only studying here) Joined: 16 Sep 2009
Posts: 23
|
| Posted: Sat 14 Aug, 2010 4:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
englishmen and their language. they can be SO confusing sometimes 
Thats what being a gentleman is all about!
|
|
|
|
|
Chuck Russell
|
| Posted: Sat 14 Aug, 2010 6:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Felix Dale wrote: | so when some people say 11th century they mean the century BEFORE it?
My group is, as our homepage says, "1135-1215
Historia Normannis is a 12th century reenactment group, focusing primarily on the events between the reign of Henry I and King John."
and I have searched high and low for ANY kettlehat within those years. but no.
oh well, guess I'll just have to find a funky looking norman helmet.
http://www.armurerie-du-vaucluse.com//boutiqu...-large.jpg like this maybe |
that is a norman helmet, but not a northern one. that helmet can been seen in lower Europe during the 1100s i think it's most noted around Sicily area, not say battle of hastings area
|
|
|
|
|
Gottfried P. Doerler
|
| Posted: Sat 14 Aug, 2010 9:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
if you say the 1920ies you mean 1920-29
but if you say "second decade" its 1910-19, because 1900-1909 is the first decade
so if you say 11th century its 1000-1099
but by the "eleven-hundreds" you mean the years 1100-1199
as for the chapel-de-fer, i`d rather suggest late 12th century
|
|
|
|
|
Felix Dale
Location: wales (only studying here) Joined: 16 Sep 2009
Posts: 23
|
| Posted: Sat 14 Aug, 2010 11:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
didnt some early kettle helms turn up during one of the crusades? (1st-3rd?)
Thats what being a gentleman is all about!
|
|
|
|
|
Marko Susimetsa
|
| Posted: Sat 14 Aug, 2010 1:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Gottfried P. Doerler wrote: | | so if you say 11th century its 1000-1099 |
That's not entirely correct. Since there is no year 0, the first century starts from 1 and ends at 100. Therefore the 11th century also starts at 1001 and ends at 1100.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ron Reimer
Location: Australia Joined: 16 Aug 2010
Posts: 56
|
| Posted: Mon 16 Aug, 2010 2:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
I'm a member of a group that re-enacts crusaders between 1150 -1250(primarily 3rd Crusade) and I use a similar Kettle Hat .You can find Kettles in the illuminations,throughout this period,ie theMaciejowski Bible and as has been mentioned on the Isle of Lewis chessmen.So it is period correct for you.And I think they are an entirely practical style for hot climes such as the Holy Land (and in my case Australia).
Ron
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
This is a standard topic