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Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
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PostPosted: Tue 29 Jun, 2010 11:39 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sander Marechal wrote:
Craig Shackleton wrote:
As far as safety goes, I am currently skeptical that they are safer than a light steel blunt with a good safety tip. [...] The blade flex on the thrust is comparable to either of those.


What kind of steel blunt are you using? The ones we use for training do not nearly have such flex in the thrust.


Training swords like these at KoA:
http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=...tice+Sword

( He might be using a different brand of the same thing ? ).

Our group has one and they are very flexible and reasonably safe in the thrust. Also since they are so flexible they do make you aware of your edge alignment because if your alignment is a little bit off the blade will bend a great deal but if well aligned they are rigid enough to push with strength in the bind.

A real sword or a more rigid blunt with show the same effect if one uses the flat or the edge but being much more flexible these training Federschwert exaggerate the difference between pushing with the edge that won't bend and pushing with the flat that will bend and this can be useful at times to learn proper edge alignment and windings.

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Jesse Eaton





Joined: 15 Feb 2008

Posts: 34

PostPosted: Wed 30 Jun, 2010 8:14 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Different strokes for....

I think we need a little clarification in terminology here because I think 'steel blunt' is being equated with 'federschwert'. To be clear, a steel blunt is built to be just like a real sword but with the edges blunted. A federschwert is blunted as well but it is shaped so that the mass distribution is concentrated at the hilt, the blade is more flexible and the impact of strikes is blunted as well.

Between the two, the synthetic was compares more closely with the federshwert. Federschwert weigh closer to the live steel but have a very different mass distribution. The synthetic wasters are designed to lessen the impact of a strike, like a federschwert, but do so in a different way. IMO the synthetic waster is a better option, though it clearly has its limitation, because the hilt is safer for sparring purposes. The mass os steel at the hilt of a federshwert makes closing techniques dangerous.

Steel blunts are great for armored sparring, but far too limiting for unarmored sparring or free play. Steel blunts are probably the best thing for beginers who want to lear the techniques. By necessity, the beginer has to go slowly through the techniques and they need the weight and feel of a real sword to learn the techniques properly. Live steel canbe dangerous for beginers or even more advanced students as they pick up speed while practicing new techniques. But as students advance, they need to progress towards an understanding of edge alignment as well. Blunts, by design, offer little in the way of an edge. Eventually you have to take the training wheels off and go all the way to live steel, if you want to learn the art in full. But, jumping into the deep end with live steel can be hazardous for skill development as well as safety. So we need another tool. Both Federschwert and Synthetic wasters can fill that void. Between the two, I'm leaning towards the synthetics.
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Craig Shackleton




Location: Ottawa, Canada
Joined: 20 Apr 2004
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PostPosted: Wed 30 Jun, 2010 8:51 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sander Marechal wrote:
Craig Shackleton wrote:
As far as safety goes, I am currently skeptical that they are safer than a light steel blunt with a good safety tip. [...] The blade flex on the thrust is comparable to either of those.


What kind of steel blunt are you using? The ones we use for training do not nearly have such flex in the thrust.


We use a variety of things, but my current baseline is the Alchem scarf sword.
http://www.alcheminc.com/scarfsword.html

I have a bunch of other Alchem swords as well. I personally prefer his flat tang blades over the safelex blades, but both have good flex. I use Darkwood's safety tips or else home-made tips depending on my mood.

Right now I find the best thing for kids is the Hanwei Hutton saber. It is extremely flexible and quite light, and the guard offers a little extra hand protection. Same thing for tips. It has a heavier blade than either of the other hanwei sabers.

http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=...tton+Sabre

I also have a few other swords I use, as well as a variety of rapiers. Most of the rapiers of course have lots of flex, but they are a different beast. The hanwei practical knightly and practical mortuary have little or no flex. A+A's scholar sword has a little bit of flex (more than the previous two, but not enough for every day use), but it is the best balanced single handed sword I own. The Albion I.33 has a bit more flex, is beautiful, and almost as well balanced as the A+A. It also is sufficiently rebated that I think I'll be able to get away with no tip. These two swords are the ones I will use for demos and videos, and possibly freeplay with my most experienced students. I also have a Darkwoood English backsword, which is beautiful, a joy to use, and has similar flex to the Alchem blades.

But for a sword that you are going to beat the hell out of, considering price point, durability, safety and acceptability of appearance, IMO you cannot beat Alchem. They are far from the prettiest sword on the market, but they are steel, hold up incredibly well, and perform safely and effectively.

Ottawa Swordplay
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Sander Marechal




Location: The Netherlands
Joined: 04 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Wed 30 Jun, 2010 12:23 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks Craig. You're using an entirely different kind of steel blunt then we do. What we use are what Jesse describes as "steel blunts". Not training weapons but unsharpened/rebated swords. We use these MRL swords for free play and high speed training so we don't need that much armour.
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