Suggestions/advice on selecting a hand and a half -- myArmoury.com

Larry Bohnham

I'm looking for a hand and a half type sword for less than the proverbial king's ransom. I'm already forming some personal preferences as I delv deeper into learning and practicing the German Schule of using the long sword, but since it is difficult to try various sword on the market, I'm looking for suggestions as to which blades on the market would fit my needs.
My current reference points are the Cold Steel (no rude remarks please, I've seen some of the opinions on this forum regarding Cold Steel) hand and a half I bought for my wife last year, and the Cold Steel plastic wasters we bought and train with. Here are my observations/preferences so far.
A. I'm a little cautious about the build quality of the Cold Steel's based on what I've been reading, although we have not encountered problems with my wife's yet, so I'd like a bit better design and construction.
B. I'm leaning more and more toward a lighter, quicker, blade but want it to have a reasonable amount of authority when it connects in a cut.
C. At the moment I'm favoring a blade that is about 40% thrust, 60% cut as opposed to the Cold Steel which seems 30/70 thrust to cut to me, and seems a bit inaccurate in the thrust, but very accurate in cutting.
D. I find the Cold Steel to be a bit heavy for single hand, although it feels spot on two handed, especially in the cut. So I think I want something that is a bit more versatile and maneuverable with one hand. Perhaps I'm taking too much at face value the concept that original a hand and a half's were usable either one or two handed.
E. Has anybody found the 5160 steel in Gus Trim's blades to be significantly better/more durable than good ole' 1050 or 1060 mild and thus worth the extra expense, assuming proper heat treat?

Eric Allen · Posted: Mon 24 May, 2010 11:13 pm Post subject:

Especially if you're using this for WMA practice, you might check out Arms & Armor for their training line or Albion for their Maestro line (though they lack a Maestro-line hand-and-a-halfer, they do have one in their Squire line). For what they are, I think they are reasonably priced, but at about $500, your mileage may vary.

JG Elmslie · Industry Professional

they're not the most beautiful of swords, but I can strongly reccommend Armourclass, from scotland, for absolutely amazing WMA/Reenactment blades which will stand up to a huge amount of punishment. (The joke among my group is that come the nuclear war, the only survivors will be mutant cockroaches... with armourclass' swords)

in all honesty, I'd take an Armourclass blade over anything by Albion, every time, if it's solely for sparring. A combination of quality, durability, and price/value for money.

Their off-the-shelf swords have a few bad points - a slightly bulbous hilt that tends to be a little bulky for my personal tastes (I like wasp-waisted hilts) - but would really suit anyone with larger hands, and an occasionally over-long waiting list. (they're a victim of their own success there. but it also demonstrates the demand they have over here in the UK)

But they're well worth it for practice use.

Jonathan Blair · Posted: Tue 25 May, 2010 6:38 am Post subject:

Alen L · Posted: Tue 25 May, 2010 9:13 am Post subject:

You may want to check out some of the Czech swordmakers, they're pretty good. I would especially recommend Pavel Moc, he is not overly expensive, and his swords are really well-made, though the waiting period might be a bit stretched out.
http://swords.cz/enonehalf.html

I've held and worked with quite a few of his swords, and they were all great, and one of his Cranach model is the best sword I have ever held so far. I think his prices are 280eur and up.

I've never really understood the point of using a hand-and-a-half sword single handedly, though, didn't even try much, to be honest, because it was uncomfortable, and it seemed to loose so much finesse without the other hand, so i can't verify how that'd feel with his swords in contact.

The other one is Lobko, found here:
http://www.swordcutler.com/zbrane_dlouhe_en.php

I own one of his swords, and it has held up fantastically so far, I've had it for about four or five years now, and it has lost none of its function, only the crossguard is slightly bent, which is fixed rather easily. Now with this one, i had tried some one-handed wielding (back when i started getting into swordsmanship), and it preformed quite nicely, though still not nearly as comfortable as the two-handed grip.

Eric Allen · Posted: Tue 25 May, 2010 11:08 am Post subject:

Bryce Felperin · Posted: Tue 25 May, 2010 11:45 am Post subject:

I own both an Albion and the Hanwai/Tinker. Both are good candidates in my opinion. For a first sword, at a lower price, I'd recommend the Hanwai/Tinker at this time.

If you are just starting out you won't be doing any serious fighting with them (got to learn some before you play full on), and it is a light nimble sword. Later on, when you want to do some serious training, I'd go with a stronger blade like the Armor Class, Pavel Moc, Lutel, Albion or Slayers. Those cost more and take some more strength to use. Chances are also that you won't be buying "just one sword" in the end anyway.

Also you can get a sharp blade for the Hanwai/Tinker's so you can learn cutting exercises. All you do is swap out the grip, guard and pommel using an Allen wrench. That's a good reason to recommend it for right now.

At my school most buy the Hanwai swords and work their way up to better quality when they get more money and training. Ultimately though, it's your choice.

Joe Fults · Posted: Tue 25 May, 2010 4:57 pm Post subject:

Jonathan Blair · Posted: Tue 25 May, 2010 7:57 pm Post subject:

Larry Bohnham

Thanks for the input. I did not even know about the Scottish (near to my heart) or Chech sword makers, I will take a look at them. As far as the Hanwei, I've seen them disassembled and I'm not very comfortable with the pommel threads going all the way down the the tang shoulder as this would create a stress riser that could lead to a failure. Definitely don't want the thing going airbourne through a swing! Albions look good, seem built well and have a good rep, but they are on the upper end of what I am comfortable paying. I realize my tastes will change with time, but as an analogy, I'm quite happy with my production Winchester hunting rifle, even though I really like a Dakota Arms, but I don't stay up at night worrying about how much better the Dakota would be (if I had the $), ie. for the price, the Win does everything I ask of it.

I measured the center of balance on my wife's, Cold Steel and it came in at around 4 inches which surprised me. Since many of the similar type swords out there (Valiant Arms, Gus Trim, Albion, etc) seem to have CoB's between 5 - 6 inches, I wonder if they would feel significantly point heavier than the Cold Steel? I did find two Trim swords that are at 4 inches, so I'm leaning towards them. They are roughly Oakeshott XVIII types with what I would call medium acute points as opposed to fine or awl points. They are lighter than the Cold Steel and I wonder if anyone has handled anything like them. I must confess that I'm looking for something similar to Cold Steel's new Italian Long Sword, but better quality, ie a sword that is a bit more agile but still delivers an authoritative cut.

Yes, I do feel that these type sword should be reasonably manageable with one hand and were probably originally designed that way given the fact that in fight with edged weapons, the possibility of having one arm injured is pretty high. Just as modern warriors train to use both hands and one hand for shooting the pistol, I would think Mediaval warriors did the same with the sword and probably wanted weapons that would be conducive in that role. Unfortunately, we don't have any of them around these days to ask.

Neil Gagel · Posted: Wed 26 May, 2010 7:18 am Post subject:

The added benefit of the H/T Longsword is that replacement blades are fairly cheap - I think KoA has them for just under $100, so you can actually feel fairly comfortable experimenting with sharpening and blade care techniques without fear of ruining a precious investment. I've learned more about blade profiles and sharpening and edges through reading + experimentation on a relatively cheap blade than by just reading about it. I will warn you though, those HT blades are tough and it takes a lot of work to make any real impression on them...

Joe Fults

Larry,

Are you sure you were looking at a Tinker Hanwei? Reason I ask is that his stuff and the rest of the lot from them are a bit different. Tinker Hanwei base blade photos that show the tang from KoA look reasonable enough to me:

http://kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=OH2402
http://kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=OH2403
http://kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=OH2396
http://kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=OH2397

As for the rifle analogy, maybe, maybe not. I've changed very few firearms out over the years to get what I satisfied with (lucky perhaps) but I've run through more swords than I care to count. Going to vary by person but if you're really making an effort to learn sword play I'd not discount change in taste or using that first training tool up.

JE Sarge · Industry Professional

I have a pair of the Hanwel-Tinker longswords - one sharp and one blunt, that I use with my WMA group. I am quite happy with them for the price. I got both for around $400 from KoA. Either has seen a good bit of use, and both have held up quite nicely. They ae now entering their third generation, and the bugs seem to have been worked out - though early on they had some tang problems, those have now been fixed.

You'd be hard pressed to find a better deal for the money on blunt/sharp combination with the same feel.

Larry Bohnham

I don't want to beat this to death and I'm not the sort that has to right every time, but I just went over to KoA and looked in their bare blades section, and there on display are several of the Tinker Bastard sword blades. Albeit, the picture is not the best but to my eye the pommel threads appear to be cut right down to where the stud flares into the main part of the tang. This may indeed be just fine for the loads that that part of the blade sees, but it's just not the way most fabrication and design manuals would like to see it done. The Valiant Trim designed and Gus's own blades that I've seen bare all have the threads stop a good 1/4 inch or more before they bottom out against the main tang section.

It's good to know that some of you have had good service from the Tinker blades, which would indicate that they are probably ok for the job they have to do. I'm just trying to get the best sword that fits my preferences at the best possible price, that's all. Keep feeding me ideas, this the process that often yields something I didn't think of yet.

Andrew Maxwell · Posted: Wed 26 May, 2010 6:03 pm Post subject:

JE Sarge · Industry Professional

Andrew Maxwell · Posted: Wed 26 May, 2010 9:56 pm Post subject:

Larry Bohnham

Thanks again for the input, especially your experiences with the training blades. However it's becoming evident that I should have been a bit more specific about what I'm looking for. I'm more interested at this time in finding a sharp blade and was hoping the comments would pertain more to that line. Just my fault for assuming everybody would read my mind since that was what I was thinking about. At some point I'll probably want a good training blade once I feel I've gained sufficient proficiency with the waster. So I'd appreciate your thought about a live, sharp blade.

JE Sarge · Industry Professional

I still select the H/T Practical Longsword sharpened version for an entry level hand and a half. It's a higher quality blade and it's lower in price than the Cold Steel you were looking at. It's a good beater than can be customized to your liking, and if you flub a cut and damage the blade, you can replace the blade and not have to buy another sword.

It's only $212 here:

http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=...word%0D%0A