[Tormod Engvig]

Hello all!

Does anyone know if medieval soldiers actually marched in step? I was under the impression that marching was introduced with close order drill during the Renaissance to perfect pike and shot tactics. I have noticed a tendency in Hollywood movies to portray medieval warriors marching, I would assume to give them a militaristic, imposing air. Mel Gibson's "Braveheart" immediately comes to mind. There, we see the English infantry advancing toward the Scots at Stirling bridge neatly and in step like something out of the Napoleonic Wars. Is this even remotely accurate?

Cheers,
Tormod

[Sean Flynt]

I've always assumed that drums, at least, were used to set the pace of march, but that's not really the same things as being in left-right-left-right step.

[Christopher VaughnStrever]

There was a degree of formation of those particpating in the crusades during the 13th century and that could have had a certain degree upon the formation of the medieval soldier of those times in the 13th century, though I would not go so far as to say that this influenced the entire armies way of marching as in the movie. Remember that the Romans had formation and dicipline, however that was within itself their way of war and not a patern that was followed through the medieval days.
Please corect me if I am wrong on this.

On another note as I am more familiar with the 15th century, there was no formalized training of getting everyone to walk "in-step" and have a formation. The Knights rode out and all other divisions were an aid to and of the Knights. From Knight to Knight as they lead the war with their personal heroism' They did not act with an "in-step" formation in any way. A charge of Knights with lances... I do not believe to have been in step with one-another, though there was at the least a line of some sort to the least of a small degree... I think...

[Tormod Engvig]

Perhaps it is safe to say that medieval armies (esp. infantry or dismounted troops) in general had a good notion of formation and pace, but did not march in step. I just have difficulty believing, for example, that the dismounted French knights at Agincourt marched in step with one another as they advanced toward the English lines. Wasn't the reinvention of marching and close order drill a major aspect of the "rebirth" of ancient (Greek and Roman) battlefield tactics in the 16th century? Perhaps the exception would be pikemen from the 15th century onward. If I am not mistaken, unit coherence is key for a pike formation to be effective. Perhaps they were the earliest examples (after marching had disappeared with the Romans) of the "rebirth" of ancient marching techniques, at the end of the Middle Ages?

The Middle Ages also represents a huge chunk of history, as well as tactical evolution. As far as "formation and pace" are concerned, I would imagine there would be enormous differences between infantry from an 11th century Viking army and an army from 15th century Burgundy during Charles the Bold's reign.

[Christopher VaughnStrever]

Here are a couple quotes out of the book entitled Medieval Warfare" written by H W Koch.

In this particular section on the pages from which the quotes are taken have pictures of knights wearing armor suitable of a 15th~16th century orgin and also one illustraton of the crusade era.

Page 70
Military discipline therefore was an artifical product, in-applicable to and contradicted by the political, social, and military realities of the middle ages. Nor were there any articles of war governing the behavior of the knights during a campaign."

page 75
"The knights did not arrange themselves in any particular tactical order. They just advanced on their mounts with little attention being paid to a straight linear approach. Only the order of the Templars had issued a rule saying that no brother was to attack on his own initiative or to ride outside formation."

[Maurizio D'Angelo]

Eastern Roman army used many tactics.
Already in the sixth century the officers had written orders.
The formations were trained to keep the alignment. The banners, the leader of the row, and some men were used to close ranks. It was forbidden to speak or scream in battle. The silence was necessary to listen to orders.
Shields were used to keep the rows aligned.
It is not written that modern marching in step, but it is written that were walking together, looking at the banner is the leader of the row.
Often, the army was deployed at the last minute. This not to give the enemy information on tactics to use.
To deploy an army so quickly they were trained to keep their ranks.
The Byzantine cavalry, unlike the European cavalry, attacked at trot to keep the compact formation.
I counted 53 position change orders for the troops.
"ad conto clina" front right
"ad scuto clina" front left
"Redi" turnabout
"torna mina" turn around and charged the enemy line
orders seem modern.
Persian and Byzantine precursors tactics?
without order, nothing tactics.

[Werner Stiegler]

[Luka Borscak]

I don't think it is possible to hold an infantry formation tight during movement without at least some kind of marching in step. And there are many cases of medieval infantry keeping tight formation during advance. Any tight group of people trying to walk together will eventually develop some kind of marching step.

[J.D. Crawford]

The battle of Arsuf (1191) shows a good example of a disciplined medieval march. With the Templars in the vanguard, the Hospitallers at the rear, discrete regiments in between, horse on the seaward side and infantry on the landward side, Richard's army stayed compact and orderly until the final charge on 'Saladin's' Army.

But whether they marched in step or not, I don't know.

[Jean Thibodeau]

[Sander Marechal]

A few months ago our WMA group went on training camp. One of the things we did there was experimenting with formation fighting. One of the things we found is that a tight formation like the Roman tortoise is very hard to do if you don't march (e.g. same left foot/right foot for everyone). Other tightly packed formation (viking wedge) are perfectly possible without any kind of marching step. What that means for medieval formation I don't know though. But the experiment proved to me that at least the Romans knew of the marching step.

I think that at least the famed swiss pikemen would also know the marching step. We didn't experiment with this (we lacked the massively long pikes) but I imagine that if a block of pikemen doesn't march in step then the long pikes start clattering together and causing problems. So I imagine that they too did have a marching step.

[Samuel Bena]

[Maurizio D'Angelo]

[Jean Thibodeau]

[Samuel Bena]

Ciao Maurizio ,

Hahah, you've bested me again!

Honestly I don't really know. I have assumed that the Byzantines copied the whole manoeuvre from Franks etc. as they've been very good at adapting pretty much anything they had encountered (and subsequently converting it a more "Roman" approach). Very true points about the subject of the sentence as well as the use of "brackets" (I assume you meant stirrups). Perhaps somebody who has actual experience with the Strategikon in its original form could shine some further light into it. A splendid observation nevertheless.

Regards,
Samuel

[Maurizio D'Angelo]

[Mark T]

I don't have it to hand right now, but in Venus and mars: The world of the medieval housebook, the commentator specifically points out that the depictions of troops on the move are not marching in step - although this is 'en route', not while in a 'hot' engagement. The housebook dates from ~1480s 'Germany', is considered one of the more coherent and accurate collections of images from the time, and was used as a period source for Osprey's German medieval armies book, as well as our own Aaron Schnatterly and his very impressive kit (found on a couple of threads here). I can source the exact quote if anyone wants it.

Edited to add: I think (part of) the 'troops on the move' image from the housebook was also reprinted in the Osprey title, although in a fairly small size, and monotone, which makes the image fairly grey. However, the Osprey book will be easier to track down than Venus and mars.

[Lafayette C Curtis]

Hmm. One thing I remember is Commynes mentioning somewhere about the Swiss using drums for signaling, which was new to him. This indicates that the drum wasn't commonly used in France and Burgundy during the second half of the 15th century, and perhaps (by extension) that marching in step or even in cadence wasn't widely used there within the same timeframe.

Not that marching in step is necessary for keeping a formation at all--people can march ahead and maintain a simple, roughly ordered line without following a cadence, let alone walking in lockstep (i.e. with everybody putting the same foot forward). The tricky part comes when it gets to doing tactical maneuvers, since marching in step (and especially in lockstep) does make things easier for any movement other than a simple forward march!

[Jean Thibodeau]

[Lafayette C Curtis]