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Jonathon Janusz
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 Posted: Tue 03 Aug, 2004 7:46 pm Post subject: Tritonia and its inspirations |
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just poking around the site killing a little time, and i again looked over the review of Albion's Tritonia. the sword itself is very interesting (i have had the pleasure of handling one) and what especially intrigues me is the spherical pommel.
my question is that i have had difficulty finding any other pictures or information on similar swords with what sounds to be a pommel type that was only very popular for a short time in a particular locale in Europe. if anyone has any other information on similar examples so that i may study a broader range of the type, i would appreciate the help.
thanks in advance!
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Nathan Robinson
myArmoury Admin
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Patrick Kelly
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| Posted: Tue 03 Aug, 2004 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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Ewart Oakeshott has this pommel listed in his typology in his book, The Archeology of Weapons. This is the only literary reference I have seen that discussed this specific pommel type.
"In valor there is hope.".................. Tacitus
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Nathan Robinson
myArmoury Admin
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| Posted: Tue 03 Aug, 2004 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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Here's what Oakeshott says in The Sword in the Age of Chivalry:
| Quote: | | Type R Pommel: A spherical pommel, survivors being more rare than one might expect of such an obviously practical forom of pommel. Two are in the London Museum, the first on a sword of Viking type where it looks most congruous, yet it is no replacement. It has a simple decoration of floral sprigs in the manner of many 9th-10th century swords of Frankish origin. The second spherical pommel is on a fine sword of Type XVI of c. 1300 which was found in Cannot Street in London. In the Maciejowski Bible, the drawing of Goliath shows a pommel of exactly similar form and decoration. |
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Eric McHugh
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Wed 04 Aug, 2004 6:44 am Post subject: Interesting fact about these pommels |
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| Nathan Robinson wrote: | Here's what Oakeshott says in The Sword in the Age of Chivalry:
| Quote: | | Type R Pommel: A spherical pommel, survivors being more rare than one might expect of such an obviously practical forom of pommel. Two are in the London Museum, the first on a sword of Viking type where it looks most congruous, yet it is no replacement. It has a simple decoration of floral sprigs in the manner of many 9th-10th century swords of Frankish origin. The second spherical pommel is on a fine sword of Type XVI of c. 1300 which was found in Cannot Street in London. In the Maciejowski Bible, the drawing of Goliath shows a pommel of exactly similar form and decoration. |
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It is interesting to note that Ewart's perception of this pommel type may be the result of lack of information sharing. While I was in Sweden with Peter, we found three swords with a spherical pommel. What reinforces this idea of "lack of information sharing" was the fact that the people who managed the collection had little knowledge of the swords in question. We found this very cool little type XII with a spherical pommel. Peter and I nearly had a heartattack when we climbed on top of a ladder to look at the top shelf to find the sister sword to Tritonia. Along side it was a another sword from the 15th-16th Century (I think) that had a shperical pommel too. So that was three on one shelf. Peter can confirm this (because my memory is failing me) but I believe there was a tang and pommel (with grip) that had a spherical pommel. In any event, that is at least 4 sword within 40km of one another. This would cause one to believe that these spherical pommels were a scandinavian thing, but for whatever reason, the collections that have these sword don't share information about them. Now, don't get me wrong, they are not being territorial about it...after all they let me into the back area  But sometimes the academic priorities of an organization dictate that other ancient objects will be researched while others sit in storage.
So, I don't think this is as rare of a type as previously thought.
Find me on Facebook, or check out my blog. Contact me at eric@crownforge.net or ericmycue374@comcast.net if you want to talk about a commission or discuss an available piece.
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Björn Hellqvist
myArmoury Alumni
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| Posted: Wed 04 Aug, 2004 11:48 am Post subject: |
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Peter is away on holiday for a few more days, and has limited access to the Internet in the meantime. I would like to add some to what Eric said. Oakeshott said in the preface of one of his books that he was aware that he hadn't visited e.g. Sweden and the collections here, which might explain why some types are less prominent in his writings. Another thing is that there are many swords that have catalog entries, but which haven't been described in print. For example, Peter, Eric and I saw two stunning medieval (14th-15th C) swords in a collection complete with scabbards, the latter being extremely rare. They are unknown to the public mostly due to the fact that no one has written anything on them, perhaps not even been aware how unique they are. So, there's still a lot to do for the researchers and scholars out there.
My sword site
Last edited by Björn Hellqvist on Fri 06 Aug, 2004 12:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Jonathon Janusz
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| Posted: Wed 04 Aug, 2004 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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thanks for the information, gentlemen, and thanks for the move, Nathan - i just clicked a link as i was reading.
Nathan, i would be interested in learning more about the type XVI mentioned from Oakeshott in the London museum as the type in particular seems to be becoming my favorite. is there an online source documenting the museum pieces or a book perhaps?
Eric, i would be very interested in seeing any notes from your expedition with Peter if at all possible. I was hoping someone from Albion would post seeing as these swords seem to pop up in Peter's back yard often enough.
thanks again for the time!
PS: Eric, i know it is probably a little early to tell, but will i have the opportunity to examine Tritonia at Lanzefest? (. . . and maybe, just maybe, bask in the divine presence of the Sovereign. . .  )
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Eric McHugh
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Thu 05 Aug, 2004 5:46 am Post subject: |
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| Jonathon Janusz wrote: | | PS: Eric, i know it is probably a little early to tell, but will i have the opportunity to examine Tritonia at Lanzefest? (. . . and maybe, just maybe, bask in the divine presence of the Sovereign. . . ) |
Well, we do have the prototype, so that will be here for viewing for certain. Regarding Sovereign, it just depends on how things are going. If we have time, we can certainly do that. I plan on having a number of swords available for viewing. I will try my best.
Find me on Facebook, or check out my blog. Contact me at eric@crownforge.net or ericmycue374@comcast.net if you want to talk about a commission or discuss an available piece.
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Jeremy V. Krause
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| Posted: Thu 05 Aug, 2004 10:05 am Post subject: |
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Eric,
Since we're talking Museum Line I thought I'd ask this as a long shot- not exprecting much info mind you. But can you give any impressions of what the upcomming SOSM-T will be like- have you handled the origonal. Any ideas on weight. I don't even know really what type it is. The only picture I have is the top section in "The Arms and Armour of the Medieval Knight." Thanks, Jeremy
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Erik F
Location: Sweden! Joined: 08 May 2004
Posts: 12
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| Posted: Thu 05 Aug, 2004 11:03 am Post subject: |
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I have seen pommels like that on a few zweihänder swords.
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Howard Waddell
Industry Professional
Location: Wisconsin, USA Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Posts: 717
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| Posted: Thu 05 Aug, 2004 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Jeremy V. Krause wrote: | Eric,
Since we're talking Museum Line I thought I'd ask this as a long shot- not exprecting much info mind you. But can you give any impressions of what the upcomming SOSM-T will be like- have you handled the origonal. Any ideas on weight. I don't even know really what type it is. The only picture I have is the top section in "The Arms and Armour of the Medieval Knight." Thanks, Jeremy |
Since Peter is away and I have his documentation in front of me, I'll give this a go (hopefully I am reading this right)...
The sword of Saint Maurice of Turin is
105 cm overall length (41.3")
91.5 cm blade length (36")
1.33 kilos (2.93 lbs)
My sense is that it is a Type XII(ish) to XIIIb(ish) blade, though it does not fall neatly into either category. It might be considered a Type XII on steroids, because it is a BIG sword for a single-hander -- a horseman's sword without a doubt.
Bjorn could no doubt correct me anywhere I have strayed, since he is more familiar with it than I am.
In a few weeks we will be putting it up on our page with additional iformation from Peter about the recreation.
Best,
Howy
Albion Swords Ltd
http://albion-swords.com
http://filmswords.com
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Jeremy V. Krause
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| Posted: Thu 05 Aug, 2004 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you Howy,
36 inch blade- now that's a big'un! Damn! I was hoping for a real fighter- something that could be used by the infantryman as well as the cavalry, but alas! you guys will reproduce what you choose. I will wait and see and continue to send money. Must... send.... money.... to Albion. . . . . . God! How rediculous does that sound? And the sad thing is that I;m not sucking up!!
I know that you guys have things set up for awhile ahead but have you given any thought to a Museum Line sword akin to the knight- something for the infantry? Just a thought, Thanks, Jeremy
P.S. Please continue to pay attention to the high middle ages. (1050-1300) Listen, you guys are great and I, as well as others sharing this period of interest, are looking to you to keep making these brutally efficient implements of war.  [/b]
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This is a standard topic