[Sean Flynt]

I have a project in mind that I'm not sure will fly. Maybe y'all can help me decide. The blade would be the Hanwei-Tinker longsword blade--long and relatively broad at the cross but light and with a very strong taper, fuller and needle point. I'd cut down the tang to single-hand proportions, add a simple recurved cross, leather-bound grip and large globular pommel. I'd also need to eliminate the slight flare at the top of the blade, which is just as well because this blade is very sharp from tip to tang, and it would need a few dull inches below the cross.

The idea is to make something approaching those interesting Italian swords/rapiers of ca. 1550. Two problems--I can't find many (any?) antiques of this type and I'm not sure where the POB should be. Initial experiments suggest I'd get a POB of around 4" if I proceed as described above. That seems reasonable for a more typical single-hand sword, but what about for this application? Anglo reports that one Italian master recommended a POB of four fingers below the cross (3"-4", depending on the hand). Any thoughts are appreciated.

PS: If we've learned nothing else in 500 years, I hope we have learned NEVER to fight geometry naked.

[Vincent Le Chevalier]

My initial impression is that even with the flare removed the blade will be too wide for the type, specifically it will preclude fingering the quillon which can be seen on both illustrations. Depending on the tang configuration you could try to turn a portion of it into a ricasso?

If you're looking for inspiration perhaps the stats of A&A Milanese rapier would be of interest. There are also measurements of 17 antiques of this period in Ken Mondschein's new Agrippa translation, but I'm not sure it's OK to share these... And the book is cheap As a rule I'd say 4in PoB is a more typical minimum, and there are examples with a PoB even further down. In absolute terms it may seem big, but bear in mind that most of those single-handers actually have longer blades than your Tinker longsword. The longest has a full 45in...

Of course there is more to balance than PoB but don't get me started on that

Regards,

[Sean Flynt]

Very helpful, Vincent! Thanks! Yes, the width does concern me, although I can comfortably use a finger over the cross of this very rough clay "sketch". The grip shown here might be too small, but the blade is ~1.75" as-is. I haven't yet figured how much width would be shed by eliminating the flare--maybe .25" on each side. So, maybe a final max width of 1.50, which is still about .25" broader than A&A's Milanese rapier. I need to check out Mondschein's book.

It's very interesting to hear that 4" would be at the low end of the POB. As you point out, there are other factors to consider there, including blade length, but that's an eye-opener for me.

[D. Besnier]

Hi sean

If you search on this site (the best for me) the topic "Examples from the Musée de l'Armée Paris", I think there are some swords that seems to match what you seek! One in particular on the first page which is the third to the left from a claymore. I hope it can help you!

Dan

[Greg Coffman]

[D. Besnier]

More pictures of it !

[Maurizio D'Angelo]

[Sean Flynt]

You're not crazy, Maurizio! Although the H-T blade doesn't have the unusual geometry of the Brescia blade, it is a light, fullered, acutely tapered longsword blade probably best suited to civilian dueling. As far as I can tell, that corresponds to the Brescia sword as well as one in the Royal Armouries with a scent-stopper pommel. If I don't make one of these single-hand Italian swords I'm planning to use the blade for a sword similar to one of those. I think it's very interesting that the culture that gave us that Brescia sword later gave us the acutely tapered single-hand swords and their new systems of fighting.

[Sean Flynt]

Thanks for the photo tips, Dan and Greg! I'd take every sword in that case. The one y'all are noticing is too complex for my meager skills but it is beautiful.

[Craig Peters]

Sean,

Another sword that might be worth considering is A&A's Saxon Military Sword: http://www.arms-n-armor.com/view.html?sword135a.jpg . Maybe it might be worth contacting Craig to find out how much the blade by itself would cost?

[Greg Coffman]

I just remembered another photo I had of a pair of swords that might help shape your image for this project.

[Dan Dickinson]

Greg, that one you posted looks a lot like (if not identical to) one re-created by Peter Johnsson for the Royal Armoury in Stockholm. Do you know where it is located....perhaps it is the original?

Thanks,
Dan

[Greg Coffman]

Hmmm.

This case was unmarked and in the children's section--which at first made me think these were not authentic but replicas or something--of the Royal Armoury in Stockholm. So I suppose this is either the original or Peter's recreation.

Greg Coffman

[Peter Johnsson]

That sword is mine *and* it is the original (they are one and the same)
I was asked to make a sword for the Royal Armouries to use for their knighting of children during various festivals and open house events.
The theme of the project was the romance of the knightly ideals of the early 17th C. There were tourneys and festivities celebrating ancient/medieval times at that time.
There are swords surviving from this period that show a romantic mix of old elements with the contemporary. I think the illustrations that have inspired Sean Flynt´s project is an expression of the same thing: not necessarily depicting specific or popular sword types, but drawing Swords with an archetypical or classic flavor. A way to build a credibility of having support from ancient times, or re establishing old arts. That is the spirit of the renaissance after all...
I presented half a dozen different suggestions to a design that would be in this spirit: a sword of the early 17th C that would celebrate the ideals of older times. This design was the favorite and it was fun to make.

I have seen some swords that were made like this. There is one in the Wallace collection that is a very god example. It looks like a very big left hand dagger. An italian blade. I shall see if I can dig out the catalogue number. It is not depicted in the printed catalogue. I do not know how much they have advanced with internet publishing of the new photos of all th objects in the collection?

It is fun seeing my old sword. It must now be ten years old or more.
It starts to look almost genuine!

On the left is A&A´s replica of the rapier of Gustav Wasa.

[Greg Coffman]

LOL. Really small world.

My regret in seeing Stockholm was that the Stockholm Medieval Museum was closed.

Greg Coffman

[Sean Flynt]

A detail from Carpaccio, ca. 1500. Note sword length and acutely tapering profile.

[Greg Coffman]

[Sean Flynt]

A bit, but it helps to see an antecedent, get some idea how the type might have developed...

[Peter Johnsson]

[Sean Flynt]

Ahh, Norman....One of the few books I've never been able to find for a reasonable price. I need to just track it down in a U.S. library so I can at least borrow it. Many thanks for the notes, Peter. It's becoming clear that I don't really have the goods to do something authentic with this project. I do think I could make a very attractive "fantasy" piece, though. Might be fun to work without boundaries.