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Binoy Fernandez
Location: Omaha, NE Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 4
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 Posted: Fri 08 Jan, 2010 9:38 pm Post subject: Fiore Book |
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Hey all,
I just started learning Fiore and, since I'm trying to pace myself with purchases and make good ones, I thought I'd plug the forum for some advice. If you guys were to choose one book on the subject to have, which would it be?
Thanks,
Binoy
Binoy Fernandez
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Steven Reich
Location: Arlington, VA Joined: 28 Oct 2003
Posts: 237
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| Posted: Fri 08 Jan, 2010 9:55 pm Post subject: Re: Fiore Book |
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| Binoy Fernandez wrote: | | I just started learning Fiore and, since I'm trying to pace myself with purchases and make good ones, I thought I'd plug the forum for some advice. If you guys were to choose one book on the subject to have, which would it be? |
Tom Leoni's translation. It is clear, concise, and correct, and Fiore's text is remarkably instructive in itself.
Steve
Founder of NoVA-Assalto, an affiliate of the HEMA Alliance
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Andrew Maxwell
Location: New Zealand Joined: 03 May 2009
Posts: 90
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| Posted: Fri 08 Jan, 2010 9:59 pm Post subject: Re: Fiore Book |
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| Steven Reich wrote: | | Binoy Fernandez wrote: | | I just started learning Fiore and, since I'm trying to pace myself with purchases and make good ones, I thought I'd plug the forum for some advice. If you guys were to choose one book on the subject to have, which would it be? |
Tom Leoni's translation. It is clear, concise, and correct, and Fiore's text is remarkably instructive in itself.
Steve |
From everything I have heard, that is by far the best translation available. I don't do Fiore myself, but everyone who does seems to have nothing but glowing praise for that book.
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Maurizio D'Angelo
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| Posted: Fri 08 Jan, 2010 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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Course, I prefer my Italian text, but from what I read in translation, I find it very accurate text.
What may seem like a mistake in the book. He writes: born in Premiacco near Civitale of Austria. Fiore dei Liberi was born in Premariacco, near Cividale del Friuli. Maybe he writes so why then not yet part of the Serenissima, but falls in the Holy Roman Empire.
Sure, some words have their precise meaning, only in your language.
I think a good book.
Ciao
Maurizio
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Binoy Fernandez
Location: Omaha, NE Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Sat 09 Jan, 2010 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, my instructor (maestro?) got Leoni's book. I have heard his translation is better than most, in part because he knows the Italian of Fiore's day. Have they included the images in it, or is it still just text?
I've heard some good things about Guy Windsor's book, what do you all think of that?
So is there a good place to go for some high resolution images? I'd be really interested in finding something where that has the Italian text and the english translation, with good quality images as well.
Binoy Fernandez
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Philip C. Ryan
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| Posted: Sun 10 Jan, 2010 12:51 am Post subject: |
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Binoy, oddly enough, until this last year, I lived in Omaha as well. I practiced viking age combat with Skjaldborg. Some of us also started work with Fiore originally with the now defunct Nebraska Swordfighters Guild out of Lincoln. Currently, a few of the Skjaldborg guys still train a bit on Fiore. If you are needing some practice partners, I may be able to hook ya up with them. Who is your current instructor??
Skjaldborg Viking Age Living History and Martial Combat
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Maurizio D'Angelo
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| Posted: Sun 10 Jan, 2010 5:28 am Post subject: |
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Mr.Fernandez,
Tom Leoni know the Italian of Fiore's day.
Some words are still in use today in some dialects.
The book is only text.
On my site I have a Fiore's video . I Send you, links, in p.m. . maybe it can be useful
I don' t know Guy Windsor's book.
Regards
Maurizio
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Steven Reich
Location: Arlington, VA Joined: 28 Oct 2003
Posts: 237
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| Posted: Sun 10 Jan, 2010 5:53 am Post subject: |
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| Binoy Fernandez wrote: | Yeah, my instructor (maestro?) got Leoni's book. I have heard his translation is better than most, in part because he knows the Italian of Fiore's day. Have they included the images in it, or is it still just text?
I've heard some good things about Guy Windsor's book, what do you all think of that?
So is there a good place to go for some high resolution images? I'd be really interested in finding something where that has the Italian text and the english translation, with good quality images as well. |
Tom's Fiore translation is the best one out there, not only because he can read the original Italian (he is a native Italian after all), but he also has the educational and vocational background to make a good translator (he has a classical education which included several years of Latin and he is a professional writer). As such, he could really "hear" the blue-collar tone of the work and translate accordingly so that the work reads more like an English work than an Italian translation. Note, I realize that some might think I'm biased because Tom and I are friends, but I really do feel that it is the best translation available; however, I'm not the only person who feels this way as evidenced by the large number of Fiore instructors and students who use this as their primary or only translation. However, Tom's translation is only of the Getty manuscript. If you want the others, parts of them are available online in various places. Additionally, Tom's translation does not have the images because that would have been prohibitively expensive and would have added a very long delayed to publication.
Guy's book is an excellent starter's book. Although I don't really practice Italian Longsword, I found it to be quite informative and interesting for beginning students. Plus, Guy is a good writer so it is a "fun read".
I have heard good things about Collin Richard's Fiore material but I don't have any personal experience with it.
Unfortunately, the images for the Getty manuscript of Fiore are tightly controlled by The Getty, so getting your hands on them will probably be difficult and expensive (unless you have academic credentials).
Steve
Founder of NoVA-Assalto, an affiliate of the HEMA Alliance
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Binoy Fernandez
Location: Omaha, NE Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Sun 10 Jan, 2010 7:53 am Post subject: |
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| Philip C. Ryan wrote: | | Binoy, oddly enough, until this last year, I lived in Omaha as well. I practiced viking age combat with Skjaldborg. Some of us also started work with Fiore originally with the now defunct Nebraska Swordfighters Guild out of Lincoln. Currently, a few of the Skjaldborg guys still train a bit on Fiore. If you are needing some practice partners, I may be able to hook ya up with them. Who is your current instructor?? |
Philip,
I'm actually learning with the Nebraska Swordfighters Guild out of Lincoln right now, the same group out of Lincoln. Bill Murphree is our current instructor. What / who is Skjaldborg? I'd be really interested in meeting other people interested in WMA and the sword.
Binoy Fernandez
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Christian Henry Tobler
Location: Oxford, CT Joined: 25 Aug 2003
Posts: 704
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| Posted: Sun 10 Jan, 2010 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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Hello all,
I too should put in the "pal of Tom's" disclaimer, but I must also chime in regarding the quality of the translation.
As he did with his Fabris translation, Tom's done something that few translators are capable of: he 'steps aside' and lets Fiore speak in his own voice. Given that Tom himself is a very distinct and colorful character (and I'm sure he'd be pleased with the characterization!), that's no small feat.
I'm very impressed with what Tom's accomplished here, and I'm still more pleased that there's a 'close to definitive' translation of the Getty Fiore now - a work much abused through poor readings, phantasmagoric interpretation, and translation artifacts. This work should advance the study of Fiore's art and clear up many a misconception.
All the best,
Christian
Christian Henry Tobler
Order of Selohaar
Freelance Academy Press: Books on Western Martial Arts and Historical Swordsmanship
Author, In Saint George's Name: An Anthology of Medieval German Fighting Arts
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Randall Pleasant
Location: Flower Mound, Texas Joined: 24 Aug 2003
Posts: 333
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| Posted: Mon 11 Jan, 2010 7:26 am Post subject: |
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| Steven Reich wrote: | | Unfortunately, the images for the Getty manuscript of Fiore are tightly controlled by The Getty, so getting your hands on them will probably be difficult and expensive (unless you have academic credentials). |
It should also be noted that since the images were note include with the translation, Tom's book has a very affordable price!
Ran Pleasant
ARMA DFW
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Patrick Jones
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| Posted: Sun 17 Jan, 2010 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Steven Reich wrote: |
Unfortunately, the images for the Getty manuscript of Fiore are tightly controlled by The Getty, so getting your hands on them will probably be difficult and expensive (unless you have academic credentials).
Steve |
Steve:
The Getty images may be expensive, but not difficult to get. All you have to do is ask them - and pay for! I bought a copy of the Getty manuscript on CD last August, and it cost me $170US, although I got a discount because a friend had emailed me a coupon the museum put out. The museum was quite happy to accept the digital coupon.
If anyone else is interested in obtaining the Getty version of the manuscript, contact Katy Corella, Senior Staff Assistant, Manuscripts Department, J. Paul Getty Musuem, at KCorella@getty.edu
Here's her email response I got when I first enquired about buying a copy of the manuscript:
| Quote: | Dear Mr. Jones,
I have received your request for digital copies of the "Flower of Battle" manuscript (MS. LUDWIG XV 13) from the Registrar's Office which handles all of the rights and reproduction requests. It is indeed possible to purchase a disc of Ms. Ludwig XV 13 containing high resolution images. The disc contains all 85 images in the manuscript. Each image is approximately 3100 x 4400 pixels. The total cost of the disc is $212.50 which can be paid via check made out to The J. Paul Getty Museum and sent to my attention. If you have any other questions please feel free to contact me directly.
Many thanks,… |
I need to add that this price is for personal use only, and NOT for publication. You'd need the Getty's permission for that, and I don't know what that would entail.
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Steven Reich
Location: Arlington, VA Joined: 28 Oct 2003
Posts: 237
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| Posted: Sun 17 Jan, 2010 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Patrick Jones wrote: |
The Getty images may be expensive, but not difficult to get. All you have to do is ask them - and pay for! I bought a copy of the Getty manuscript on CD last August, and it cost me $170US, although I got a discount because a friend had emailed me a coupon the museum put out. The museum was quite happy to accept the digital coupon.
If anyone else is interested in obtaining the Getty version of the manuscript, contact Katy Corella, Senior Staff Assistant, Manuscripts Department, J. Paul Getty Musuem, at KCorella@getty.edu
Here's her email response I got when I first enquired about buying a copy of the manuscript:
| Quote: | Dear Mr. Jones,
I have received your request for digital copies of the "Flower of Battle" manuscript (MS. LUDWIG XV 13) from the Registrar's Office which handles all of the rights and reproduction requests. It is indeed possible to purchase a disc of Ms. Ludwig XV 13 containing high resolution images. The disc contains all 85 images in the manuscript. Each image is approximately 3100 x 4400 pixels. The total cost of the disc is $212.50 which can be paid via check made out to The J. Paul Getty Museum and sent to my attention. If you have any other questions please feel free to contact me directly.
Many thanks,… |
I need to add that this price is for personal use only, and NOT for publication. You'd need the Getty's permission for that, and I don't know what that would entail. |
Good news and thanks for the information. Would you mind if I put it on the OSH site or Tom put it in the spiel for his book?
Steve
Founder of NoVA-Assalto, an affiliate of the HEMA Alliance
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Patrick Jones
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| Posted: Tue 19 Jan, 2010 6:43 am Post subject: |
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| Steven Reich wrote: |
Good news and thanks for the information. Would you mind if I put it on the OSH site or Tom put it in the spiel for his book?
Steve |
Steve:
Please do! Pass it on anywhere you see fit!
I had meant to post this last year when I received my copy, but the WMAW was coming up (my first one!) and I completely forgot afterwards.
Until a couple of years ago, when Sean Hayes mentioned that he'd bought a copy for his own study, I didn't even know the Getty sold digital copies of the images.
I'd always assumed that you had to be a university-credentialed academic simply to get access to the manuscript. Being able to view the actual images myself - and combining them with Tom's excellent translation – is an enormous help in understanding the manuscript.
Cheers!
Pat
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