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Jeff A. Arbogast
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 Posted: Sun 08 Nov, 2009 6:50 am Post subject: Mail Sample |
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Here is a mail sample a vendor sent me. I am just curious what everyone thinks about it. It is flat-ringed wedge-riveted mail from India and it is pretty reasonably priced. The vendor says himself that it may not be the very finest available, but for the price (around $1300.00 for the coat, split front and rear, and tapering long sleeves) he doesn't think that anyone can complain. It looks pretty good to me without having to take out a second mortgage (if I even could).
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A man's nose is his castle-and his finger is a mighty sword that he may wield UNHINDERED!
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Gabriele A. Pini
Location: Olgiate Comasco, Como Joined: 02 Sep 2008
Posts: 239
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| Posted: Sun 08 Nov, 2009 7:36 am Post subject: |
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I don't have a similar mail to compare, but for me the price is a bit too high: the armour is clearly handmade, but without great skill. Some links are off center, they will probably came loose or break...
Someone has a similar armour priced?
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M. Eversberg II
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| Posted: Sun 08 Nov, 2009 9:19 am Post subject: |
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The ID to OD ratio is off. I am of the understanding that maille doesn't let you see that much table through it when well made.
M.
This space for rent or lease.
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Matthew Amt
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| Posted: Sun 08 Nov, 2009 9:41 am Post subject: |
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| M. Eversberg II wrote: | The ID to OD ratio is off. I am of the understanding that maille doesn't let you see that much table through it when well made.
M. |
Huh, I wouldn't have thought that. It looks plenty dense to me. But I mostly see Roman mail, and there may be a difference (since Romans mostly used alternating rows of solid punched rings and round-wire riveted rings). And it could just be that advancing age makes lighter, fluffier, airier mail that WEIGHS LESS very attractive to me!
Have to agree that $1300 still sounds a tad high. We've been getting sleeveless Roman mailshirts with shoulder doublings for $425 to $800 (the latter being 6mm inner diameter rings). But since this is all riveted, that might make it more expensive.
Good luck!
Matthew
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Jeff A. Arbogast
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| Posted: Sun 08 Nov, 2009 10:12 am Post subject: |
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Here are another couple of pics with the mail draped over my forearm. As far as I can tell by measuring, the I.D> appears to be 5/16" and the O.D. appears to be 1/2." The supplier said that the weight of the hauberk is about 24 pounds. Long over-the-shoulder coif w/ small face opening adds to it though.
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A man's nose is his castle-and his finger is a mighty sword that he may wield UNHINDERED!
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Blaz Berlec
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Jeff A. Arbogast
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| Posted: Sun 08 Nov, 2009 12:42 pm Post subject: Re: Mail Sample |
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Well, I haven't paid for anything yet, nor am I likely too for a while. I admit I'm not as knowledgeable in this area as I would like, including price. I am mainly just fishing for opinions regarding it's construction for now. The manufacturer who makes this is the same company that makes the mail for GDFB I was told, so apparently the quality is similar to those you mention.
A man's nose is his castle-and his finger is a mighty sword that he may wield UNHINDERED!
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Dan Howard
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| Posted: Sun 08 Nov, 2009 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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The quality is the same from all the above suppliers. So just buy the cheapest. It is fine if you want something that looks a bit like historical mail. The links are too light and the riveting too dodgy to handle combat unless you are capable of making your own repairs. Ask for galvanised mail. You may as well save yourself the trouble of keeping it clean.
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Blaz Berlec
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| Posted: Sun 08 Nov, 2009 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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Well, I'll have the chance to see that for myself soon, Cap-a-pie all wedge riveted voiders and skirt are on their way to me right now. If the Royal Mail still functions. 
I strongly doubt that it's as bad as Howard says - a lot of people use riveted maille from the above suppliers in stage fights and mock combat without problems. Of course it's not completely accurate reconstruction, you couldn't use it for "destructive testing of medieval maille" and get any useful results (wrong material, slightly wrong shape of the overlap and rivet, several other deviations).
And I think combat that regularly damages your riveted maille isn't really that healthy to person underneath, unless you are wearing it on top of the plate armour.  I mean, just a while ago people were completely satisfied with their butted "chainmail".
Extant 15th Century German Gothic Armour
Extant 15th century Milanese armour
Arming doublet of the 15th century
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Hadrian Coffin
Industry Professional
Location: Oxford, England Joined: 03 Apr 2008
Posts: 404
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| Posted: Sun 08 Nov, 2009 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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The cheapest I know of for flat-riveted mail is https://ssl.perfora.net/www.finditarmory.com/sess/utn154af73ad2551fa/shopdata/index.shopscript
$280 for half sleeve, $340 for full sleeve. From what I have seen the quality of the Indian made mail is pretty much all the same.
What I like about find-it-armory's is that from the pictures it seems to show some moderate tailoring.
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Historia magistra vitae est
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Dan Howard
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| Posted: Sun 08 Nov, 2009 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Blaz Berlec wrote: | | (wrong material, slightly wrong shape of the overlap and rivet, several other deviations). |
A LOT of other deviations.
| Quote: | | And I think combat that regularly damages your riveted maille isn't really that healthy to person underneath, unless you are wearing it on top of the plate armour. I mean, just a while ago people were completely satisfied with their butted "chainmail". |
Butted mail is heavier and can absorb more impact. With light mail virtually all of the blow is transferred through to the wearer. Underpadding is a lot more important.
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Sam Gordon Campbell
Location: Australia. Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 678
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| Posted: Sun 08 Nov, 2009 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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Ah, well I think it's all give a little, take a little.
I mean, one is not going to break the buget too much if the shop around for a good deal, one could use it whenever for whatever, it looks slightly more accurate than butted, one could customise it (in theory) and when it's past its heyday, you can recycle it 
Then again, if one bought really good, high quality, real maille, well, I for one wouldn't fight in it, nor do any of the aforementioned things; plus it'd be super expensive!
So yeah, that's my two cents.
P.S. Can anyone recomend an Australian supplier? As I'm in the market for some voiders/gussets and ye olde international shipping hurts ones buget greatly 
Member of Australia's Stoccata School of Defence since 2008.
Host of Crash Course HEMA.
Founder of The Van Dieman's Land Stage Gladiators.
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S Bryce
Location: England Joined: 16 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Mon 16 Nov, 2009 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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Have to agree with Dan on the quality of the maille sample in the images, some rough edges on that.
Not sure on the comment of quality being same from all the suppliers though. I have examples of GDFB, Capapie and Historic.
In my opinion Historic and Cap-a-pie are by far the best, in fact looking at the wedge standard I have from Historic, it looks very siimilar in quality to the Cap skirt i recently bought.
One thing I have noticed when looking at the really cheap stuff is that it can cut your gambeson to shreds. I carried a cheap shirt for a mate of mine back to his car recently and ended up some nice cuts on the wrist. 
Can't recall the name of the company but the riveting was terrible, most of the links had blown and the edges were very sharp. He was happy as it only cost him Ł200.
On the subject of maille which is the reason I have just signed up after some years just lurking on the site. LOL
Does anyone have any thoughts on 6mm maille. Saw some 6mm from Cap-a-pie at the living history fayre last week and it looks really cool. Tempted to get some voiders and a standard in this but wanted to keep the skirt in the larger gauge. Any thoughts on if it would have been mixed in that way.
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David Clark
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| Posted: Mon 16 Nov, 2009 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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I have heard of and seen, in person, great maille from Icefalcon Armoury. If you go to the armourarchive.org he is having a stimulus sale through christmas.
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Craig Peters
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| Posted: Tue 17 Nov, 2009 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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| David Clark wrote: | | I have heard of and seen, in person, great maille from Icefalcon Armoury. If you go to the armourarchive.org he is having a stimulus sale through christmas. |
For one thing, the fact that the mail shirt fits the guy in the Icefalcon photos like a tent leads me to doubt just how accurate this assertion is. Notice how much more form fitting an actual, historic suit of mail is: http://www.myArmoury.com/view.html?features/pic_mail17.jpg
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Felix R.
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| Posted: Tue 17 Nov, 2009 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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Of course you are right regading the proper fit of a maile shirt. But you won´t get that tight a fit with a pull over shirt.
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Craig Peters
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| Posted: Tue 17 Nov, 2009 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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Jeff,
You might want to consider looking here: http://www.medievalrepro.com/Mail.htm. I can't say for certain, but the mail looks like it might be better quality, specifically with its inner to outer diameter ratio for rings, than the sample you've posted, and the price is similar.
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Jeff A. Arbogast
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| Posted: Tue 17 Nov, 2009 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Craig Peters wrote: | Jeff,
You might want to consider looking here: http://www.medievalrepro.com/Mail.htm. I can't say for certain, but the mail looks like it might be better quality, specifically with its inner to outer diameter ratio for rings, than the sample you've posted, and the price is similar. |
Hi Craig-
You win the prize! The sample of mail I posted is indeed from Peter Fuller of Medieval Reproductions. He sent me the sample and gave me permission to post it any way I liked, but I chose not to name the supplier so as to get a better idea of what the varying opinions of it would be without any prejudices creeping in pro or con because of the supplier. I have a nice scabbard made by Peter many years ago, and have found him to be a most pleasant and knowledgeable person to deal with. I do find the workmanship of some of the items on his site (such as the "Beowulf" helm) to be breathtaking. I personally don't doubt that the mail I have shown is plenty adequate for play-acting, mild play combat, or anything but the most EXTREME violence, and frankly, anyone who goes willingly into such a savage life-and-death fracas for "fun" is, in my opinion, completely nuts. Like most here I'll wager, I simply enjoy handling it, looking at it, dressing up and looking cool in it, but certainly not having my brains beat out in it. This hobby we indulge in is the coolest ever, but I am not going to tear up the things I worked so hard to put together and paid so much for unless I was rich enough to readily replace them, which I'm not. That's getting way too serious for me.
A man's nose is his castle-and his finger is a mighty sword that he may wield UNHINDERED!
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David Clark
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| Posted: Tue 17 Nov, 2009 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Craig Peters wrote: | | David Clark wrote: | | I have heard of and seen, in person, great maille from Icefalcon Armoury. If you go to the armourarchive.org he is having a stimulus sale through christmas. |
For one thing, the fact that the mail shirt fits the guy in the Icefalcon photos like a tent leads me to doubt just how accurate this assertion is. Notice how much more form fitting an actual, historic suit of mail is: http://www.myArmoury.com/view.html?features/pic_mail17.jpg |
Well, doubt all you want, but I fight against a fellow wearing one of his Lorica Hamatas and another fellow who wears one of his byrnies nearly every week (SCA). They fit them just fine (no rumpling from too much girth etc...) and they look great and have taken an awful lot of damage and held up wonderfully.
And as Felix said, you can't get that body hugging look with a maille shirt you pull over your head, such as those worn by the Saxons, Norse, etc...
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Jonathan Atkin
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| Posted: Tue 17 Nov, 2009 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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I have a full maille suit from ice it fits me just fine, I've only had to modify it just a tad. The half sleeves needed to be taken in a little and I had to cut a little off the top of my chausses. Other then that excellent fit. Not to start a fanboy war but you shouldn't knock it till you've tried it.
"If I must choose between righteousness and peace, I choose righteousness''. - Theodore Roosevelt
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