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Ross Richardson
Location: Seattle Joined: 18 Aug 2009
Posts: 3
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 Posted: Tue 18 Aug, 2009 11:15 am Post subject: Anyone know much about 5th Century CE Visigothic swords? |
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Hello there. Awesome forum. Here's the story:
I'm a new dad. I named my son Alaric Liam Hannibal Richardson. Pretty killer, eh? Here's the question-
I want to get a tattoo that is representative of his first name, after Alaric I, the Visigothic king who sacked Rome in the 5th century CE. I'd like to get a tattoo of a sword, while my wife wants a shield or helm.
Trouble is, we are having a very hard time finding ANY photos of Visigothic relics from the era, and do not have enough education on the subject to know where to look. What weapons and armor did the Visigoths from the time use? I would imagine like all good barbarian leaders at the time, Alaric I was probably Roman trained and therefore most likely used Roman arms. However, I'd like to find something more "Germanic"or "Visigothic" looking from the era, even if it isn't EXACTLY historically accurate. Maybe give or take a few hundred years for the sake of asthetics. Any experts in this forum care to point me in a good direction?
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Jean-Carle Hudon
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| Posted: Tue 18 Aug, 2009 4:22 pm Post subject: Migration era |
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Hello Ross,
take a look at the favorites, and then at what Del Tin has to offer in the Migration period. That will give you a sense of the differences in the sword types... happy hunting. JC
Bon coeur et bon bras
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Ross Richardson
Location: Seattle Joined: 18 Aug 2009
Posts: 3
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| Posted: Wed 19 Aug, 2009 11:46 am Post subject: |
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Thanks!!!
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Jean Thibodeau
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A Visser
Location: Amsterdam Joined: 22 Jun 2009
Posts: 19
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Paul Hansen
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| Posted: Thu 20 Aug, 2009 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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The only potential problem is that the typical Germanic Migration Age sword, with the double crossguards and triangular pommel, starts at approx. 450-500 at the very earliest...
It is more likely that Alaric in around 400 used a Roman sword, but I'm unsure whether this would still be the typical shape with the globe shaped organic pommel...
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David Wilson
Location: In a van down by the river Joined: 23 Aug 2003
Posts: 803
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| Posted: Thu 20 Aug, 2009 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Paul Hansen wrote: | The only potential problem is that the typical Germanic Migration Age sword, with the double crossguards and triangular pommel, starts at approx. 450-500 at the very earliest...
It is more likely that Alaric in around 400 used a Roman sword, but I'm unsure whether this would still be the typical shape with the globe shaped organic pommel... |
It seems to me that about that time, the line between what is "Roman" and what is "Germanic" gets pretty blurry.... especially since a large portion of the Roman army (western, anyway) was made of Germanic immigrants by then....
David K. Wilson, Jr.
Laird of Glencoe
Now available on Amazon: Franklin Posner's "Suburban Vampire: A Tale of the Human Condition -- With Vampires" https://www.amazon.com/dp/B072N7Y591
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Jared Smith
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| Posted: Thu 20 Aug, 2009 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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| David Wilson wrote: |
It seems to me that about that time, the line between what is "Roman" and what is "Germanic" gets pretty blurry.... especially since a large portion of the Roman army (western, anyway) was made of Germanic immigrants by then.... |
http://www.roman-artifacts.com/Gladius_Spatha...spatha.htm
We have several examples of tombstone effigies and other things that depict "Romanized" Gauls, but very few of "native" Gaul forms. The above link seems (cricumstantially) to be of or close to Roman era, but from the looks of it does not resemble a Roman gladius-spatha style. The Germanic tribes made their blades "somehow" differently such that learning something about their pattern welding and smithing was commented on a couple of times in Roman-Gaulish era. I always thought it was interested that there were other "waisted" finds within the same region that the Mainz gladius type seems to originate.
Absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence!
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Paul Hansen
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| Posted: Sun 23 Aug, 2009 8:37 am Post subject: |
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| David Wilson wrote: |
It seems to me that about that time, the line between what is "Roman" and what is "Germanic" gets pretty blurry.... especially since a large portion of the Roman army (western, anyway) was made of Germanic immigrants by then.... |
Well, you do get a lot of Roman swords in Germanic territory, such as the Illerup-Adal finds, but these swords remain essentially Roman in design and manufacture.
Although the all-metal hilted swords such as found in Nydam, Torsbjerg, Kragehul and Vimose, among others, (Behmer types II and V) seem to be a Germanic development, but exclusively limited to Scandinavia, and therefore probably not very suitable for a Goth.
| Jared Smith wrote: |
http://www.roman-artifacts.com/Gladius_Spatha...spatha.htm
We have several examples of tombstone effigies and other things that depict "Romanized" Gauls, but very few of "native" Gaul forms. The above link seems (cricumstantially) to be of or close to Roman era, but from the looks of it does not resemble a Roman gladius-spatha style. The Germanic tribes made their blades "somehow" differently such that learning something about their pattern welding and smithing was commented on a couple of times in Roman-Gaulish era. I always thought it was interested that there were other "waisted" finds within the same region that the Mainz gladius type seems to originate. |
Interesting sword, but I can't really say if it's Roman or Germanic made. If anything, the concept seems Roman, if the shape somewhat unusual.
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Ross Richardson
Location: Seattle Joined: 18 Aug 2009
Posts: 3
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| Posted: Mon 24 Aug, 2009 8:54 am Post subject: |
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Thanks everyone, I've come to the right place. During the 5th Century, the Visigoths migrated to what is now Spain, forming a kingdom that lasted until the early 6th century- Toulouse.
Does anyone know much about 5th or 6th century artifacts or weapons from that locale and time period?
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