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Gert-Jan Beukers




Location: Voorhout, The Netherlands
Joined: 02 Mar 2009

Posts: 30

PostPosted: Mon 02 Mar, 2009 12:29 pm    Post subject: Katzbalger, 15th Century?         Reply with quote

Hello,

I first want to say that I'm new to this forum.... and I'm dutch.... So please don't execute me for my spelling.

Okay, this is also my first topic here, so I don't know this already exists. I'm in an Medieval reenactmentgroup, late 15th century (1470 -1490) and I saw on the internet an picture of a so called 'Katzbalger' sword. I wondered if that swordtype could fit in that period. (an early version or something) In Holland we had many influences from the Landsknechten form Germany. Hopefully you guys can tell me more about it.

Greetings,

Gert-Jan



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Correct me if I'm wrong.... I'm dutch
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Mon 02 Mar, 2009 12:54 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That's a very poor attempt at an early 15th c. Katzbalger. In any case, I doubt you'd see that specific style used much beyond Germany or northern Italy. Even the Swiss had a very different short infantry sword.

Fortunately, our friends in the Low Countries can turn to the art of Hans Memling. The image below is from his series on St. Ursula, ca. 1480. If you want a short infantry sword for your impression, the one here is perfect. A messer also would be a good choice.



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-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Vrin Thomas





Joined: 16 Dec 2005

Posts: 12

PostPosted: Mon 02 Mar, 2009 9:03 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

You should see some of the hands on reviews of Katzbalgers on this site, they are very nicely done as a rule worthy of a check up if you are thinking about purchasing something.

http://www.myArmoury.com/reviews.html

Mr Flynt is correct though that they did not get much circulation outside of "the empire" BUT in an interesting crossover there are several wood cuts from the Kriegsvolker (sp?) that show landsknechts with messers just like the one mentioned above. I think they may have preferred them if they could get them, foreign blades had some novelty for them. And novelty was everything to a landsknecht Happy

I nearly forgot my favorite image of a contemporary Katzbalger is on Swords.cz

http://www.swords.cz/pictures/swords/kac02.jpg
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Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
Joined: 11 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Tue 03 Mar, 2009 4:18 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

When were Landsknechts actually founded? I don't know exact year... And did Katzbalgers appeared before them or with them?
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Tue 03 Mar, 2009 7:14 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Although Maximilian I formed the first Landsknecht unit, the need evolved alongside the 15th c. rediscovery of ancient military theory that emphasized organized and well-disciplined infantry, standing armies, extensive use of pikes, etc.


The Wikipedia article provides a good overview:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landsknecht

-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)


Last edited by Sean Flynt on Tue 03 Mar, 2009 7:49 am; edited 1 time in total
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Larry Lim




Location: Tiny RED Dot
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PostPosted: Tue 03 Mar, 2009 7:45 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Another place that makes good Katzbalger, esp. for re-enactment circles, is Lutel. The following semi-custom piece was one I got from Lutel a couple of years back.


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