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Michael Curl
Location: Northern California, US Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 487
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 Posted: Fri 19 Dec, 2008 9:50 pm Post subject: Questions on metal |
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Hey guys, a few questions about metallurgy.
1. what is difference between high carbon steel and mild steel?
2. Which is more historically accurate?
3. Was iron or steel more common for armor?
4. What is "cast iron"?
5. Is there any other kind of metal that I should know about in european arms and armor?
E Pluribus Unum
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Arne Focke
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Sat 20 Dec, 2008 12:12 am Post subject: |
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1. The more carbon a steel contains the harder it is, but also more brittle. Since the carbon content of mild steel is quite low it is soft and tends to bend rather than break.
2. None. Modern steel contains a lot of additives to achieve certain characteristics.
3. At which time?
4. Simply iron that is cast like you would do with bronze. Maybe you have seen a documentation about how church bells are cast...
Cast iron is often used in ovens and the like.
5.Bronze, brass and copper deserve some attention. 
Hope this helps a little bit.
Greetings from Kiel
So schön und inhaltsreich der Beruf eines Archäologen ist, so hart ist auch seine Arbeit, die keinen Achtstundentag kennt! (Wolfgang Kimmig in: Die Heuneburg an der oberen Donau, Stuttgart 1983)
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Doug Lester
Location: Decatur, IL Joined: 12 Dec 2007
Posts: 167
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| Posted: Sat 20 Dec, 2008 8:13 am Post subject: |
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To expand on Arne's answere, cast iron contains more than 2% carbon and is too brittle to forge and must be cast to shape. That's the technical answere.
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Michael Curl
Location: Northern California, US Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 487
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| Posted: Sat 20 Dec, 2008 8:38 am Post subject: |
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Would cast iron ever be used in medieval armor?
As to Arne:
If you could tell me at what periods what kinds of metals were prevelant in armor that would be great.
E Pluribus Unum
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Justin King
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Sat 20 Dec, 2008 9:01 am Post subject: |
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I can't see how cast iron would have been used for armor itself, although it may have been used for anvils or other tooling. As stated before it is brittle, unmalleable and cannot be forged. Once cast its shape can only be changed by stock removal or by re-casting.
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Matthew Amt
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| Posted: Sat 20 Dec, 2008 11:48 am Post subject: |
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| Michael Curl wrote: | | Would cast iron ever be used in medieval armor? |
Not that I know of. I understand that it was generally regarded as a waste product because it couldn't be forged to shape. All iron and steel armor that I know of was forged/hammered.
| Quote: | | If you could tell me at what periods what kinds of metals were prevelant in armor that would be great. |
Hoo, that's a big question! I'll stick to the earliest bits.
Not surprisingly, during the Bronze Age armor was made of bronze, an alloy of copper and tin. The tin content could vary from 3 or 4 percent up to 15 percent or more, at which point it can actually be harder than wrought iron. Bronze continued in use for armor and helmets well into the Iron Age. When you think of Classical Spartans and other Greeks, plus Romans, Persians, etc., that's Iron Age, but they still use bronze for much of their armor (at least at first!).
The Romans seem to have developed brass, too, which is copper and zinc. It got used for large numbers of helmets during the late Republic and early Empire (roughly 100 BC to 300 AD). However, most Roman armor and helmets after the first century BC (and most mail before that) were made of iron. This also varied in carbon content, and some of it can be called steel though we usually only see higher-carbon steel in sword and dagger blades. Surviving pieces of lorica segmentata almost invariably are a low-carbon steel or "steely iron", and seem to have been hammer-treated so that they are harder on the outside face and softer on the inside. Obviously we're talking about some sophisticated metalwork!
Does that get you started? Vale,
Matthew
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Arne Focke
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Sat 20 Dec, 2008 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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I am really no specialist for armor. I believe that towards the end of the late middle ages softer iron was replaced by steel as the preferred material. Many things play a role in changes like that, not just the materials change, also the production methods.
With a little browsing on myArmoury you should find a couple of interesting threads to read.
Under the link "Books" myArmoury provides some interesting reading suggestions you might want to pick up.
But its late (almost 1 AM) and my english is getting sloppy. So, i better call it a day.
So schön und inhaltsreich der Beruf eines Archäologen ist, so hart ist auch seine Arbeit, die keinen Achtstundentag kennt! (Wolfgang Kimmig in: Die Heuneburg an der oberen Donau, Stuttgart 1983)
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James R.Fox
Location: Youngstowm,Ohio Joined: 29 Feb 2008
Posts: 253
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| Posted: Thu 25 Dec, 2008 10:37 am Post subject: |
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Hi Mattjew- The dates matter alot here, as western europe inventeted the blast furnace arond 900, making possible the mass prodiction of high carbon steel. They also had tempering and later quench hardening of steel, as well as old-fashoned hammer-hardening.The never stopped using brass and bronze for furniture though, scabbard mouths quillons,pommels,chapes,buckles,and so on as it's heavier and easier to work.
Ja68ms
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This is a standard topic