Historical examples of maille gussets on plate harness? -- myArmoury.com

JE Sarge · Industry Professional

Are there any existing examples of maille gussets on plate harness?

I recall reading somewhere that in lieu of wearing a full hauberk under plate that sometimes the vital exposed areas were covered with a partial maille gusset, cop, etc to save on the overall expense for the soldier at the time...I am currently doing some research to build a new plate harness and would be interested in seeing some historical examples of this (provided they exist or were the imagination of some forgotten author I read years ago in college.) I have only recently had an interest in armor beyond the 12th century, so this is somewhat new ground for me.

Thanks in advance for your replies/information!

Randall Moffett · Posted: Sat 13 Dec, 2008 12:22 am Post subject:

Yes this takes place during the 15th. The Hastings MS comes up late 15th as a good example, a man shown being armed and he has on a arming doublet with mail gussets, skirt, etc. My guess is that by mid 15th this was fairly common as you find mail skirts and such in inventories by the 1450s/60s.

I had thought it likely by Agincourt this had happened but several accounts of the battle, Monstrelet for one mention full, knee length hauberks under their plate....

RPM

Allen W · Posted: Sat 13 Dec, 2008 6:54 am Post subject:

There are existing examples from the 16th cent. displayed in the Landeszeughaus Graz.

David Jenkins · Posted: Sat 13 Dec, 2008 2:33 pm Post subject:

Have a look a these topics

http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...rhose[url]
http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...rhose[url]
http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...rming[url] middle of first page prisoner stripped of armour

JE Sarge · Industry Professional

Thanks for the information. I was trying to find some historical precedent in the idea I had for a maille/leather gambeson.

Below is a MS Paint rendition of what I was thinking about. Any thoughts on if this could have been a legit configuration used in the early 15c?

Thanks for your further input!

Steven H · Posted: Sat 13 Dec, 2008 9:34 pm Post subject:

Lafayette C Curtis · Posted: Sun 14 Dec, 2008 4:53 am Post subject:

That design reminds me a bit of Sir Richard Bingham's arming doublet in this picture:

http://www.npg.org.uk/live/search/portrait.as...p;role=sit

though of course I agree with Gary that a fabric material would have been more appropriate than leather; Sir Richard's doublet is obviously fabric.

James R.Fox · Posted: Mon 15 Dec, 2008 10:57 am Post subject:

Sirs-I never heard of plate w/o gussets untill the 1500's invention of the brayette. Wearing a gorget, the mounted knight was vurnable from below ( the footman) only in the the armpit and family jewels I would refer you to the southern knife-fighter's practice of juking (driving a knife held against the thigh into the opponent's testicles or bladder) and the Zulu practice of driving the thrusting spear into the armpit.Peritinitis was totally fatal in those days, you know.

Bill Sahigan · Posted: Mon 15 Dec, 2008 12:38 pm Post subject:

Arn't they called 'voiders'?

From HE:

http://www.historicenterprises.com/cart.php?m...0&c=25

I believe the same thing goes for the back of the leg (though I haven't seen an example of it done to the groin and lower back. Maill skirts are the equivalent i think.

Also, on this note. Any idea when plate defenses were developed for joints? ie. armpit, hindquarters, full legs ect.

Bill Grandy · myArmoury Team

Bill Sahigan · Posted: Mon 15 Dec, 2008 1:07 pm Post subject:

interesting, always thought that was just a skirt tucked in. thanks.

Josh Warren · Posted: Thu 18 Dec, 2008 2:13 pm Post subject:

James R.Fox · Posted: Thu 18 Dec, 2008 2:21 pm Post subject:

Sirs As I stated in My post above, the first piece I could find in use was the brayette a steel codpiece from the 1600's. The best example I know of is King Henry VIII's jousting armour from the Tower Of London collection.