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Craig Johnson
Industry Professional
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 Posted: Mon 22 Sep, 2008 8:26 pm Post subject: Seems like there have been some good discoveries of late! |
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I have noticed several interesting finds of late. I especially would love to get a look at the shield.
Best
Craig
Chariot
Gold Treasure
Viking Shield
Ships
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Gavin Kisebach
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| Posted: Mon 22 Sep, 2008 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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I think the ship and chariot finds are the most important, though the shield find is most relevant to this forum. I keep thinking that these finds are going to dry up some day, but they never do.
That chariot is pretty stoutly encased in much, I'll look forward to seeing it cleaned up.
Has anyone on the forums attempted archery from chariot? There seems to be a lot of interest in horse archery and jousting, but chariot archery Egyptian style would be pretty cool methinks.
There are only two kinds of scholars; those who love ideas and those who hate them. ~ Emile Chartier
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Russ Ellis
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Tue 23 Sep, 2008 6:40 am Post subject: |
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Like Gavin I too find myself surprised at times that new discoveries often even significant ones are made. You would have thought that everything that could be plowed up, dredged up, stumbled across or discovered would have been... and every year someone comes up with something new, often from the weirdest places. The mail shirt (or was it a helmet I don't remember completely) that they found up in the eaves of that scandinavian church still has me shaking my head...
TRITONWORKS Custom Scabbards
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Nathan Keysor
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Craig Johnson
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Tue 23 Sep, 2008 7:20 am Post subject: Much we do not know. |
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You beat me to it Nathan, I knew there was one one more I had meant to put on the list. I just remembered but you had covered it.
There is a lot that we do not know and have not found yet. It is a function of our age. There are so many things going on and communication is so fast we lose sight that there is a great deal that has not been found. We assume all the big stuff has been found. Even now a plane going down in a remote area can go undetected. Cover something with a thousand years of growth and dust and it may never appear. Keeps one humble as you never know when someone will find something that you would say does not exsist 
Best
Craig
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Sean Manning
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| Posted: Tue 23 Sep, 2008 8:30 am Post subject: |
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| Gavin Kisebach wrote: | I think the ship and chariot finds are the most important, though the shield find is most relevant to this forum. I keep thinking that these finds are going to dry up some day, but they never do.
That chariot is pretty stoutly encased in much, I'll look forward to seeing it cleaned up.
Has anyone on the forums attempted archery from chariot? There seems to be a lot of interest in horse archery and jousting, but chariot archery Egyptian style would be pretty cool methinks. |
Dr. Thomas Hulit, the man who published Tutankhamun's hide scale armour for the first time in a thesis a few years ago, tried chariot archery for a documentary he was advising. Only the chariot was a typical Hollywood one, with a metal frame and no leather-spring floor, so it was harder than it should have been, but not as hard as he expected. You can read about it in this book.
Last edited by Sean Manning on Tue 23 Sep, 2008 6:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Craig Peters
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| Posted: Tue 23 Sep, 2008 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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I hope that one day someone actually locates an 11th or 12 century kite shield, just so we have an example of an original. It seems odd to me that we have at least a few shields from the Viking era, but no shields prior to the late 12th/ early 13th century. Is this because shields were more likely to be buried in Norse and Scandanavian culture at that time than Europe at a later period?
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Jeroen Zuiderwijk
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Wed 24 Sep, 2008 12:05 am Post subject: |
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| Gavin Kisebach wrote: | | I think the ship and chariot finds are the most important, though the shield find is most relevant to this forum. I keep thinking that these finds are going to dry up some day, but they never do. |
One of the reasons why so much is being found is simply because a lot more ground is being build on nowadays. As the archeology also gets more attention, less that turns up at those digs gets lost. However you have to keep in mind that of all the artifacts that turn up out of the ground, only a very minute percentage ever makes it into the archeological collections. A lot is sold off illegaly ending up in antiques stores, or isn't recognized and destroyed and frequently even destroyed on purpose by excavators to prevent archeologists from ruining their schedule. If you'd hear of all the things lost (and I've heard many horror stories there), you'd be very happy that we've got somethings to look at at all. Just to give one example, a friend of mine found a large patternwelded early medieval winged spearhead in amazing condition inside an old iron bin at the DYI store, which is better then any I've seen in museums so far! Now if that doesn't even get recognized, then who knows f.e. how many wooden shields get dug through for example by excavators, and destroyed before anyone thinks it may be something else then some bits of old wood.
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Gavin Kisebach
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| Posted: Wed 24 Sep, 2008 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | A lot is sold off illegaly ending up in antiques stores, or isn't recognized and destroyed and frequently even destroyed on purpose by excavators to prevent archeologists from ruining their schedule. |
That's dreadful. I can see the motivation; but dreadful all the same. How I wish that we had the problem of stumbling upon hauberks and iron spearheads here in the US. 
Does anyone know the legality or illegality of destroying antiquities?
There are only two kinds of scholars; those who love ideas and those who hate them. ~ Emile Chartier
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Max Chouinard
Location: Quebec, Qc Joined: 23 Apr 2008
Posts: 108
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| Posted: Thu 25 Sep, 2008 7:25 am Post subject: |
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In Canada it is completely illegal, an entrepreneur discovering what he would believe to be an archaeological site should stop working and get in touch with the authorities. Unfortunately nobody has ever been prosecuted for violating this law; when it is discovered, works are stopped but no one is blamed. On a lighter note, the new generation of construction workers is more informed and respectful about it. I have no idea what is the situation in the US but I suppose it would be roughly the same.
Maxime Chouinard
Antrim Bata
Quebec City Kenjutsu
I don't do longsword
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Justin H. Núñez
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| Posted: Thu 25 Sep, 2008 11:58 am Post subject: |
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As one famous Archaeologist said, "That belongs it in a MUSEUM!"
But my archaeology professor did say that the biggest problem in archaeology is sample size. Only if we were to dig up every inch of reath then we have a better understanding of really happened. Since that will not happen ( I hope ) we will always have just a vague and blurry snapshot of history. It is all very exciting isn't it
"Nothing in fencing is really difficult, it just takes work." - Aldo Nadi
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Sam Haverkamp
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Mon 29 Sep, 2008 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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Craig,
Aye, I bet that shield could tell some stories.
I ran across this today and even though its kind of old news, I thought I would post it.
I need to get a metal detector and a plane ticket to Europe Treasure hunting has to be a huge rush!!! I would of course hand them over to a Museum once I was done ogling them.
http://www.24hourmuseum.org.uk/nwh_gfx_en/ART57124.html
Sam
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Jeroen Zuiderwijk
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Tue 30 Sep, 2008 6:03 am Post subject: |
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| Sam Haverkamp wrote: | Craig,
Aye, I bet that shield could tell some stories.
I ran across this today and even though its kind of old news, I thought I would post it.
I need to get a metal detector and a plane ticket to Europe Treasure hunting has to be a huge rush!!! I would of course hand them over to a Museum once I was done ogling them. |
Yeah, but the trouble is that by then you've destroyed most of the archeological evidence. The ground itself holds the most clues about the artifacts, and is like a history book you can only read once. This kind of treasure hunt has destroyed nearly all our heritage, aside from a few rare examples where these finds were properly documented by archeologists from the start. And aside from that, a lot of places like f.e. burial mounds are monuments by themselves, which are destroyed by digging into them.
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Craig Johnson
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Tue 30 Sep, 2008 6:45 am Post subject: Vik Sword |
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Hi Sam
Yes that is a very nice find. The detail on this hilt is especially nice. The piece would have been quite something in its day. My guess is a pretty high status item.
Best
Craig
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Craig Johnson
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Tue 30 Sep, 2008 7:12 am Post subject: Knowledge versus Life |
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| Jeroen Zuiderwijk wrote: | | [Yeah, but the trouble is that by then you've destroyed most of the archeological evidence. The ground itself holds the most clues about the artifacts, and is like a history book you can only read once. This kind of treasure hunt has destroyed nearly all our heritage, aside from a few rare examples where these finds were properly documented by archeologists from the start. And aside from that, a lot of places like f.e. burial mounds are monuments by themselves, which are destroyed by digging into them. |
You are very correct Jeroen in archeology context is everything. An item removed from its find place loses a great deal of information. In a perfect world the value we placed on understanding our past would be much higher and supported by an informed and committed populace. The structure of our system to deal with this issue today is a free market scrabble between the antiquities markets and underfunded scientific research. This is slightly or greatly over and under regulated by institutions that may or may not help the situation. It is an imperfect system at its best.
Sadly the perceived value of the object in the market place overrides to many factors and to often dictates the pieces move from context to the private market place never seeing the light of day or adding to the knowledge base.
Best
Craig
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Craig Johnson
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Tue 28 Oct, 2008 7:35 am Post subject: Great Find Ancient Greek with import sword |
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Here is a great find. An ancient sword made in Italy but in a warriors grave in Greece from the 12th C BC. I look forward to better pics but here is what I could find and an article.
Warriors Grave
Best
Craig
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Craig Johnson
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Sat 22 Nov, 2008 7:31 am Post subject: Another Bulgarian Chariot |
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Seems that Bulgarian archeologist are finding some very nice stuff of late. The first pot on this thread included a link to the first complete chariot they had found. Now they have just announced an even more elaborate model
Bronze sheathed Chariot
Must be quite something, plus surviving tack for the horses must be rare indeed. No mention of arms but one would expect there to be some in such a high status grave.
Very cool.
Craig
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Doug Lester
Location: Decatur, IL Joined: 12 Dec 2007
Posts: 167
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| Posted: Sat 22 Nov, 2008 10:35 am Post subject: |
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Another problem faced, and probably more frequently than contractors not wanting to stop work, is funding. A few years ago we had the hull of a wooden ship found during an excavation along the Elizabeth River. The contractor did stop work and notify the appropriate officials but no one wanted to spend the money on a quick archaeological dig so it was just ripped out and carted off to a landfill.
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Bill Grandy
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Sat 22 Nov, 2008 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Doug Lester wrote: | | Another problem faced, and probably more frequently than contractors not wanting to stop work, is funding. A few years ago we had the hull of a wooden ship found during an excavation along the Elizabeth River. The contractor did stop work and notify the appropriate officials but no one wanted to spend the money on a quick archaeological dig so it was just ripped out and carted off to a landfill. |
Oh, that makes my heart break, and yet I can completely see why it happened.
HistoricalHandcrafts.com
-Inspired by History, Crafted by Hand
"For practice is better than artfulness. Your exercise can do well without artfulness, but artfulness is not much good without the exercise.” -anonymous 15th century fencing master, MS 3227a
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Craig Johnson
Industry Professional
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This is a