Posts: 2,698 Location: Indonesia
Sat 30 Aug, 2008 12:31 am
| Rodolfo Martínez wrote: |
| Since most of you know about the physics of the longsword, What do you think about its use from horseback? |
Used in one hand, it feels pretty normal and usable once you get used to the longer grip and pommel (which isn't that hard either). Or are you talking about two-handed use?
Posts: 347 Location: Argentina
Sat 30 Aug, 2008 7:32 am
Hello Lafayette.
I was refering to single handed use, since the Durer-like sword looks lika a two hander.
Is it posible to use it with both hands from horseback?
Posts: 57 Location: Tulsa, OK
Sat 30 Aug, 2008 10:51 am
video
I have been watching this group's videos on youtube for a while. I love them and watch them over and over. It would be great if the group produced a dvd showcasing this stuff.
Posts: 32 Location: Chicago, IL
Sat 30 Aug, 2008 1:54 pm
That was really well done
I was really impressed. They made it look easy!
Posts: 354 Location: Dijon
Sat 30 Aug, 2008 2:07 pm
| Rodolfo Martínez wrote: |
Hello Lafayette.
I was refering to single handed use, since the Durer-like sword looks lika a two hander.
Is it posible to use it with both hands from horseback? |
These swords do look like you can use both hands on the grip - and indeed you can :).
But they equally well can be used one handed, even from horseback.
Posts: 347 Location: Argentina
Sun 31 Aug, 2008 8:52 pm
| Fabrice Cognot wrote: |
| Rodolfo Martínez wrote: | Hello Lafayette.
I was refering to single handed use, since the Durer-like sword looks lika a two hander.
Is it posible to use it with both hands from horseback? |
These swords do look like you can use both hands on the grip - and indeed you can :).
But they equally well can be used one handed, even from horseback. |
I know that most (Or at leas some) men-at-arms, were trained in sword combat since childhood, but such type of sword looks like very massive for a single hand, And you can find them in almost all XVI century mounted knight´s belts!
Its an awesome sword, its not only a beautiful design, it seems a powerful chopper too. Very nice indeed.
I remember that i was looking for images showing knights with such swords, and i couldn´t find any, until i gave up. Then they popped authomatically. :D
As a side question, Do you know if those swords were really carried by men-at-arms, or they were just an artist license during the first half of the XVI century?
I ask because some examples look a bit primitive, like disk pommels, and no side-rings.
Now, about the video...
Do you know if there is any Grosse Messer fight manuscript?
Posts: 30 Location: Salisbury, Maryland
Mon 01 Sep, 2008 8:13 am
| Rodolfo Martínez wrote: |
Do you know if there is any Grosse Messer fight manuscript? |
Yes there is. This fechtbuch is entirely about the use of the messer.
http://mdz10.bib-bvb.de/~db/bsb00002184/images/
Transcription here:
http://www.pragmatische-schriftlichkeit.de/tr...82_s_e.pdf
I hope this helps.
-Cory
Posts: 354 Location: Dijon
Mon 01 Sep, 2008 3:34 pm
| Rodolfo Martínez wrote: |
| I know that most (Or at leas some) men-at-arms, were trained in sword combat since childhood, but such type of sword looks like very massive for a single hand, And you can find them in almost all XVI century mounted knight´s belts! |
I can assure you they're not that massive, and can be easily used one-handed.
| Quote: |
As a side question, Do you know if those swords were really carried by men-at-arms, or they were just an artist license during the first half of the XVI century?
I ask because some examples look a bit primitive, like disk pommels, and no side-rings. |
Remember that this type of swords is quite limited to a very short period at the very beginning of the XVIth century (though they existed well before). Their frequence in artwork by countless artists, and the fact that we still can see some of these swords in various collections nowadays affirm that they were indeed used 'for real'.
| Quote: |
Now, about the video...
Do you know if there is any Grosse Messer fight manuscript? |
You'll also find Messer fighting in the aforementionned Codex Wallerstein. Though Lecküchner remains the big Messer Masterwork.
Cheers
Fab
Posts: 347 Location: Argentina
Mon 01 Sep, 2008 10:24 pm
Thank you guys.
Here there is some Grosse Messer destruction.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vfes9jAmNNI&feature=related
Just imagine, an unarmored guy being hit by such monster.
Anyway, WHo used Grosse messer?
Posts: 354 Location: Dijon
Tue 02 Sep, 2008 12:20 am
| Rodolfo Martínez wrote: |
| Anyway, WHo used Grosse messer? |
At first, peasants and lower classes. Then its popularity reached the top levels.
Posts: 93
Tue 02 Sep, 2008 1:07 am
Very nice. Did anyone else pick up the iaido feeling I got? For some odd reason, it reminded me of those kata forms. Smooth, tight movements. Very nice.
Posts: 347 Location: Argentina
Tue 02 Sep, 2008 10:43 am
Another nice vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsGU5KI1qJA
| E Stafford wrote: |
| Very nice. Did anyone else pick up the iaido feeling I got? For some odd reason, it reminded me of those kata forms. Smooth, tight movements. Very nice. |
I think it is due to human movility, all humans share the same structure, so, i don´t get surptised when i see similar techniques, between different MMAA. The weapons can make some difference, like the first techniques of the video wich can only be performed with longsword or any sword with cross guard.
I´m not very happy about the video responses, i´ll not talk about the guys in the forest, but i´m really curious about the guy showing the Chinese sabre. I mean, when i see Renaisance or Japanese sword MMAA, i see in both styles, guys who use their feet to ¨anchor¨themselves to the ground. In the other hand, the MIao Dao guy (See around second 0:35) stands in one feet and do fancy things (Excuse my ignorance if they are not fancy things) that i don´t see as proper forms for battle or dueling. I don´t know if it is just a forms demostration, or if they really do that when fighting.
Posts: 23
Tue 02 Sep, 2008 11:56 am
One problem
The problem I have with this types of videos that describes different longswords techniques (which is nice executed by the way), is that one attacker alwys do one attack and then stops, if someone parry my cut and continues with a counterstrike (winden/mutiren/duplieren) I will retreat or try to counterattack.
For example in the last video one attacker always stops after the initial cut.
Posts: 620 Location: Bjästa, Sweden
Tue 02 Sep, 2008 12:05 pm
That could be because the video shows direct and killing techniques to that particular attack. In their other longsword video they show some different plays fom ringeck and danzig and there you have following attacks.
They´re not showfights. They should be looked at as instructional videos or demonstrations of technique.
Posts: 347 Location: Argentina
Tue 02 Sep, 2008 3:15 pm
Here they show some counter attacks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HC5FIyfI8TA&feature=related
I think that in a true fight the techniques will not be fully visible, since fights are more chaotic.
Posts: 1,265 Location: Malaysia
Wed 03 Sep, 2008 6:57 am
What do you think about this video
Hmmm.......Not bad.
I think the swords wielded by those two men are blunted so that they won't injure themselves while practicing.
Posts: 72 Location: Utrecht, Netherlands
Wed 03 Sep, 2008 7:52 am
But that's just a terrible example. Not at all the way to fight with a messer. It hurts with every kind of steel blade if you hit someone like that. But messerfeghten has a whole different kind a striking and such.
Posts: 2,698 Location: Indonesia
Thu 04 Sep, 2008 9:32 pm
| Rodolfo Martínez wrote: |
I was refering to single handed use, since the Durer-like sword looks lika a two hander.
Is it posible to use it with both hands from horseback? |
It's possible, though I think it's not very practical; a two-handed grip doesn't provide as much additional power and precision on horseback as it does on foot. This subject has been previously discussed in another thread:
http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=12222
Posts: 347 Location: Argentina
Mon 08 Sep, 2008 8:07 am
Thanks for the replies.
What do you think about those guys´ footwork when they attack? Is it accurate?
Thanks
Posts: 26 Location: Oslo, Norway
Mon 08 Sep, 2008 8:18 am
Loved the video. The costumes, setting, and music made it perfect.
10/10
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