[Roger Hooper]

I've become interested in Walloon hilts which were, in general, a mid-seventeenth century Dutch phenomenon. There are slightly different German swords of the same period. Below are pictures of a Walloon that I found at Antiqueweaponstore.com. Here is the accompanying text:

From a well known group of swords made for the Amsterdam Town Guard in the mid-17th Century, this sword is of typical “Walloon” style, with two large side-rings, each filled with a plate featuring pierced stars and circles. Knucklebow with expanded central section, screwed to the ovoid pommel. Large scrolled single quillon stamped with a floret as typically found, thumbring on reverse. Braided iron wire-wrapped grip. Double-edged 31 ½" blade with single 7" fuller, stamped “SAHAGOM” and with Solingen running wolf mark each side. Amsterdam town mark on ricasso. Very good condition overall with scattered light pitting.

[Anders Backlund]

Nice!

I've been wondering: Is there any relation between the Walloon hilt-style and the Walloon ethnic group and/or the region of Wallonia?

I'm partially of Walloon descent myself, so it's an interesting subject for me,

[Roger Hooper]

[Roger Hooper]

Here is another sword, that I found at Hessink.nl -

By strict definition, because of the side guards, it may not be a Walloon sword. The website calls it a Velddegen, which roughly translates as - battlefield sword with a straight, two-edged blade. The side guards make it look a little like an Engish Mortuary sword, but the accompanying description says it has the double multi-pierced ring plates and thumb ring that you would expect in a Walloon hilt.

If anyone has a photo of another view of this sword, I would love to see it.

[Vincent Le Chevalier]

[Roger Hooper]

These hilts were first used by the Dutch in the 1640's. I didn't mean to imply that the French only used the Walloon swords that they captured in the Netherlands. They probably thought that they were good swords,and then put in their own orders for them to the swordsmiths of Solingen.

I have come across a number of different pictures of Walloon hilts on the internet, and they are remarkably similar to each other. Their blades were more diverse, but seemed to fall into two main categories:

A cavalry version, with a average 36 inch long blade
A footsoldier version with a 32 inch (or even shorter) blade.

[Thom R.]

You can see photos of mine in my user album

http://www.myArmoury.com/albums/displayimage....amp;pos=23

My past research indicates that the quatrefoil stamp on the quillon does mark this as a 1679 pattern Mine has it as well. I have heard two different things from two respectable sources on the quatrefoil stamp on the quillon, 1. the quatrefoil stamp was placed on the blade in Amsterdam, and 2. the quatrefoil stamp was placed on the quillon by the French before sending it to their allies. The French supplied these swords to their allies in Ireland (and elsewhere) during the war between James and William. It is my understanding that believe it or not, the 1679s were purchased by France through Amsterdam dealers who ordered the swords from Germany. Hence, the german, amsterdam and french stamps all on the same sword. It would seem the French could not order the swords directly from the Germans but the ever enterprising Dutch were more than willing to act as intermediaries to turn a buck during one of the lulls in the fighting in that period. The general form of this sword was commonly used by the dutch troops as well during this period.

The sword I have is quite robust, and is a very nice cut and thrust sword, has a very serviceable point for the thrust as well as a substantial oval cross section for cutting. Definitely a sword for mounted cavalry. Mine has a different Amsterdam control mark (XXX) than the one you showed and has a mark with a crown over interlocked letters "BC" which I believe is for the shop in Germany that made the blade. I have seen different inscriptions and shop marks on these, and different pierce patterns on the plates. Probably each shop making these had thier own style. Mine has a running wolf, and SOLINGEN in the fuller. tr

[William Goodwin]

Walloon hilts and mortuary hilts do have similarities in some cases in respect to the guard / bars. I've seen quite a few that share these traits, in my mortuary research over the years

This may be due to time period conflicts (Thirty Years War & British Civil Wars) plus the makers / smiths (Solingen).

One may also see on the first pics posted, a early hint of influence on the small sword design of future decades. IMO


BTW.....nice sword there Roger....


Cheers,


Bill

[Roger Hooper]

Here is another Velddegen from Hessink with some odd little scrolled branches.

[Roger Hooper]

I'm putting up a few more pictures of two more Walloons before this thread goes over the horizon. The first is a cavalry version, the second two are of a French sword.

I wonder why nobody has made a replica of this sword? I'm seriously considering asking someone (maybe Arms and Armor) to make a custom Walloon for me. Maybe the antiques are not prohibitively expensive. I bet there are a lot of them still around since the French had so many made for them.

[Roger Hooper]

Here is the French Walloon. Note the concave shape of the pierced plates (counterguards?)

[E.B. Erickson]

I've got one of these Dutch/French Walloons in my collection. It's similar to that shown by Roger, and mine has the stamp on the quillon, and a Sahagum + running wolf + Amsterdam stamps on the blade. Mine is unfortunately missing both pierced inserts (future restoration project). I've always liked the heft and balance of the sword, and also appreciate the aesthetics of this hilt style.

I'd like to suggest that the sword from Hessink's with the little scrolled branches is English. Along with similar swords thathave passed through English auctions over the years, there's one illustrated in the booklet "Arms and Armour in Tudor and Stuart London" that's a virtual twin to the one shown in this thread.

--ElJay

[Mark G.]

[Marc Pengryffyn]

I have to say, as a bit of a cut-and-thrust enthusiast, I'd be a definite customer for a nice reproduction of one of these. At a reasonable price of course! Just in case any makers are watching this thread...

[Roger Hooper]

I was going through the old auctions at Hermann Historica, and found some more interesting swords. (They even sell medieval swords at Hermann Historica!)

First, another Walloon, dating from around 1660, with an overall length of 109m (43 in.). I love the profile on this one. it also has a perfect pear shaped pommel.

[Roger Hooper]

Here is a 17th century German Felddegen or batllefield sword

[Roger Hooper]

Two German Haudegen. I couldn't get a good translation of the word "hau" - the best I could come up with was a "hit the road sword", which doesn't make much sense. German speakers, please help. I don't like the exagerated lobes on the knuckle-guard and branch of the first one, but otherwise, very nice

[Lafayette C Curtis]

Couldn't "Haudegen" mean something like "cutting sword" or "shearing-sword?"

[Roger Hooper]

[Eric Bergman]

And who could not forget this excellent link:

http://www.sfhm.se/templates/pages/ArmeObjectListPage____306.aspx