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M. Björnhagen
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 Posted: Sat 08 Sep, 2007 5:29 am Post subject: Photos of kettlehat? |
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Hello. Got a tip that this is the forum to research armour, so here goes my query;
I am looking for pics of original kettlehat fitting the mid to late 15th century. I will have a armourer do a helmet for me and i want to go with the kettlehat, but want to try and find as many originals as possible before i settle for one. So if anyone has documentation of these type on helmets please post pix, or book references perhapse also would be helpful.
Thank you in advance.
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Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Sat 08 Sep, 2007 6:40 am Post subject: |
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Hello and welcome to myArmoury.com.  Kettle helms have been discussed here before, so using the search function should yield at least a little info and some pics.
Most quality arms and armour books discuss and show kettle helms. Unfortunately, many of these books are out of print or are expensive. I'd recommend these, though, if you can get a hold of them:
2,500 years of European helmets, 800 B.C.-1700 A.D by Howard M Curtis. My favorite book on helmets. Unfortunately, while it shows many many examples of helmets, including a number of kettle helms, it's hard to find and expensive. Expect to pay $200 or more for a copy of that book.
Arms & Armor of the Medieval Knight. Another good one. Also out of print, it can be had for less than $100 (often much less than $100) and is a great book on European Armour.
European armour, circa 1066 to circa 1700 by Claude Blair. Another classic, though also out of print. This one can be bought for circa $50.
There are others, too, but these are my top picks. For more book reviews and recommendations, check out our Bookstore.
ChadA
http://chadarnow.com/
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M. Björnhagen
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| Posted: Sat 08 Sep, 2007 7:27 am Post subject: |
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Tnx for the reply. I have indeed looked though some armourbooks, a couple of the ones mensioned above also, but ive found nothing really. It seems that this is a widely used helmet in the late middleages but very few seem to have remained, compared to the more graceful sallet.
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Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Sat 08 Sep, 2007 7:35 am Post subject: |
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| M. Björnhagen wrote: | | Tnx for the reply. I have indeed looked though some armourbooks, a couple of the ones mensioned above also, but ive found nothing really. It seems that this is a widely used helmet in the late middleages but very few seem to have remained, compared to the more graceful sallet. |
The Curtis book linked above shows 8 or 9 different kettlehats. If I get a chance, I might try to scan a few for you.
ChadA
http://chadarnow.com/
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M. Björnhagen
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| Posted: Sat 08 Sep, 2007 7:43 am Post subject: |
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That would be great. What im looking for are helmets like the ones attached, and also like the ones that are not so deep and that have the onion shape, like in the dolnstein picture -
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Hisham Gaballa
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Randall Moffett
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| Posted: Sat 08 Sep, 2007 8:32 am Post subject: |
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M.,
What MS is that drawing from? Do you know the possible date, origin or any other info? Looks pretty interesting.
Have you looked at best armour.com? Some really good recreations if you are just trying to get ideas.
RPM
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Daniel Staberg
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| Posted: Sat 08 Sep, 2007 8:48 am Post subject: |
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| Randall Moffett wrote: | M.,
What MS is that drawing from? Do you know the possible date, origin or any other info? Looks pretty interesting.
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Randall,
The image is a part of much larger battle scene drawn by the German Paul Dolnstein who wrote and illustrated a diary of his service as a landsknecht in the 1490's and early 1500s. A bridge builder by trade he had a good eye for details and skilled at drawing. Most of the drawings in the diary are easily foudn as they were published in Osprey Publishing's "Landsknecht soldier 1486-1560" (Warrior 49) by John Richards. But most of the diary text was not included.
The diary is an invaluable source which contains the only known images of Swedish soldiers of the period as well as providing a rich insight into the dress and equippment of the Landsknechts in the years around 1500.
Daniel
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Allen Andrews
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| Posted: Sat 08 Sep, 2007 9:08 am Post subject: |
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In my copy of "In the Service of the Duke" there are several decent illustrations of kettle hats. I don't have a scanner, but if I can get my daughter to let me use hers I will try and post here.
" I would not snare even an orc with a falsehood. "
Faramir son of Denethor
Words to live by. (Yes, I know he's not a real person)
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Chuck Russell
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| Posted: Sat 08 Sep, 2007 9:18 am Post subject: |
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check out the Guild of st george's dragon pdf files. i believe there is a helmet page with several different drawings of them
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Randall Moffett
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| Posted: Sat 08 Sep, 2007 11:56 am Post subject: |
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Daniel,
I just did a search on his name but could not find his journal published anywhere. Do you know if it has been? IN English would be prefered as german is not a language I have much strength in. The artword is very good. It looks very similar to some earlier picture associated with the Hussites...
I will try getting ahold of the osprey books. It looks very descriptive and the fact that unlike many artists he was a soldier who was there would be really invaluble to get a clear insight on what his experience was like, armour and weapon use, clothing etc. I have to say the diary interests me perhaps more now that I have heard this. I think I may have heard of him in the past but never checked it out. Thanks for the info.
RPM
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W. Schütz
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Sun 09 Sep, 2007 7:14 am Post subject: |
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Some kettlehats/kettlesallets. I would also like to see some more examples of this helmet type. Too bad not more of them are preserved. But i guess if you need to reforge a helmet for changed battlefield-conditions you will take the kettlehat before you chop the sallet...
Innsbruck 1460,
Anyone know where/when this one below is from? Hmm is finish hammer-marks, graverust or both perhapse?
http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/5549/15thc...letpu7.jpg
Gentes scitote,
vicine sive remote,
quod claret Suecia
plebeque militia.
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Daniel Staberg
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Sean Flynt
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Peter Dietl
Location: Munich/Germany Joined: 04 Nov 2006
Posts: 20
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| Posted: Tue 22 Jul, 2008 11:27 pm Post subject: Kettlehelmet 14. cent |
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As I´m looking for a Kettlehat fitting to my end of 14.Cent. Harness, I would like to know, if someone has Pictures, Scans or something about unusal Kettlehats for a knight from 1370-1400 southern Germany/Bohenmia/northern Italy...preserved helmets are very rare, one I know is more nothern Germany and I couldn´t reach one of the recommended books (sold out...).
thanks a lot
Peter
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Felix R.
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| Posted: Tue 22 Jul, 2008 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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Here are a few drawings of Italian Kettlhats, the first with the regular brim is a little earlier, the second with nasal is from a painting of Altichiero, which was dated around 1370.
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Lawrence Parramore
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| Posted: Wed 23 Jul, 2008 1:58 am Post subject: |
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Here are two from the Pistoia alter piece that might loosely be called that, but one looks more like a morion to me!
Around 1376 or possibly a few years earlier.
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Russ Thomas
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Sat 26 Jul, 2008 4:39 am Post subject: |
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Here is a particular favourite of mine, from the Royal Armouries in Leeds. It is Italian and dated, I think, to ca.1470. It is shown here fitted with a rather fetching bevor/barbote.
Hi Willhelm ! Long time no hear !!
That second helmet that you show does not seem right to me. It just looks wrong, to my eyes anyway. The enormous depth of it, the very straight sides, and the eye slit too look quite wrong and too small to me, almost as if they were cut in as an after thought, which some were to make them saleable in the 19th century! Do you possibly have any other pictures of it ??
Hope that all is going well for you?
Regards,
Russ
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Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero !
http://www.living-history.no
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W. Schütz
Industry Professional
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W. Schütz
Industry Professional
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