| Author |
Message |
|
Adam Bodorics
Industry Professional
|
 Posted: Mon 16 Jun, 2008 1:30 pm Post subject: Harness info requested |
 |
|
Ave!
While searching and organizing my source pictures, I found the attached image which I like quite much and I'm thinking about building a full kit based on this. Now I'd like to know the exact date and country of origin of it - I guess early 17th century, but I have no ideas at the country.
I'd really appreciate it if anyone could help me a bit.
Thanks in advance!
 Attachment: 149.23 KB
|
|
  |
 |
Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team
|
| Posted: Mon 16 Jun, 2008 4:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
That harness, and the close helmet and burgonet behind it, look like elements of the Great Garniture for Field and Tournament of Kaspar Baron Vols-Schenkenberg, made by Michael Witz the Younger around 1560. It's housed in the Landeszeughaus in Graz.
The lighting washes out some of the details, but the harness in the Landeszeughaus has etched borders.
The book Imperial Austria: Treasure of Art, Arms, and Armour from the State of Styria by Kremm and Karcheski is where I found it.
ChadA
http://chadarnow.com/
|
|
  |
|
Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team
|
| Posted: Mon 16 Jun, 2008 6:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Here are some pictures, if I got it right. Your picture appears to be comprised of the breastplate in my first picture with the reinforcing plackart over it (not shown in the pictures below but referenced in one of the diagrams at the bottom of the pictures), plus the non-barred burgonet below, and the arms and tassets. The tilting close helm and spiky barred burgonet from below are in the background of your pic.
Attachment: 59.7 KB
Attachment: 52.48 KB
ChadA
http://chadarnow.com/
|
|
|
|
|
Russ Thomas
Industry Professional
|
| Posted: Tue 17 Jun, 2008 2:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
Hi Adam,
As Chad has already said, this harness is by Michael Witz, the younger. It was made in Innsbruck in about 1559-60, and it is believed to have been made specially for the Vienna freiturnier of 1560.
There are other elments of this harness in St.Petersburg and in Baltimore.
Regards,
Russ
Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero !
http://www.living-history.no
|
|
|
|
|
|
Adam Bodorics
Industry Professional
|
| Posted: Tue 17 Jun, 2008 5:47 am Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks! Seems my guess was off a bit...  For some strange reason I thought that the helmet on it is a strange and more open variation of the totenkopf helmets...
|
|
|
|
|
|
Mrak E.Smith
|
| Posted: Tue 17 Jun, 2008 8:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
I'm not familiar with certain samples as Chad and Russ are,but I found this almost identical one from this site except that this one was blackened and seems to be gilded in the border:
http://www.civilization.ca/milhist/austria/aus05eng.html
|
|
|
|
|
Sean Flynt
|
|
|
|
|
|
Adam Bodorics
Industry Professional
|
| Posted: Tue 17 Jun, 2008 12:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I know that totenkopfs are closed burgonets, I just didn't know that they existed as soon as 1560. I always thought them to be there from the beginning of the 17th century.
Help much appreciated.
...
Next question, if anyone can help in this as well. What clothes would one wear under these? My primary areas of focus were the German area 1470-1520 and middle east X-XVI century so I know very little about this era... 
|
|
|
|
|
Russ Thomas
Industry Professional
|
| Posted: Wed 18 Jun, 2008 12:06 am Post subject: |
|
|
Hi Marc,
Actually I think that the armour that you show here is also in the Landeszeughaus, Graz. If not, they do have an identical example. There is also another one very similar in the museum that bears the mark of Wolfgang Prenner, the younger, Innsbruck, active 1546-56.
If it is indeed the Graz example that you have shown here Marc, then it is not gilded on the edges. it is a trick of the light. The edges are lobated, all of them, and there are double engraved lines around all the plates. The only other decoration is the brass rivets.
Regards as ever.
Russ
Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero !
http://www.living-history.no
|
|
|
|
|
|
Mrak E.Smith
|
| Posted: Wed 18 Jun, 2008 2:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
Russ, thank you for the correction! there's always something new to know!
Btw, what do you think about the quality of these armour? Since it was made by a famous Armourer, it should not be a munition grade armour, right? But as already mentioned, its form and outline, with the number of similar samples preserved in the armoury, always reminds me about those coarse 17th century armours, though I don't think the Totenkopf helmet is that ugly as Mr.Oakeshott suggested in his book as the most terrible one ever made in aesthetic senses.
Cheers,
Marc
|
|
|
|
|
|
Johan S. Moen
Location: Kristiansand, Norway Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 259
|
| Posted: Wed 18 Jun, 2008 3:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Russ Thomas wrote: |
Hi Marc,
Actually I think that the armour that you show here is also in the Landeszeughaus, Graz. If not, they do have an identical example. There is also another one very similar in the museum that bears the mark of Wolfgang Prenner, the younger, Innsbruck, active 1546-56.
If it is indeed the Graz example that you have shown here Marc, then it is not gilded on the edges. it is a trick of the light. The edges are lobated, all of them, and there are double engraved lines around all the plates. The only other decoration is the brass rivets.
Regards as ever.
Russ |
It is in the Landeszeughaus. The edges are as Russ says, lobated(and strongly chamfered) with double engraved lines around the plates.
It can be seen on page 26 of "Imperial Austria", the catalogue checklist reads as follows:
76.1
Armour for an Officer of Infantry or Light Cavalry
1555-60
Probably made in Innsbruck
Russeted iron, brass and leather
Breastplate 18^1/8 x 15^3/8 (46 x 39)
Joanneum Graz, Landeszeughaus, A 1962
76.2
Helmet for an Officer of Infantry or Light Cavalry
1555-60
Probably made in Innsbruck
Russeted iron, brass and leather
38 x 23 (96,5 x 58,4)
Joanneum Graz, Landeszeughaus, A 1617
Johan Schubert Moen
|
|
|
|
|
James Arlen Gillaspie
Industry Professional
Location: upstate NY Joined: 10 Nov 2005
Posts: 587
|
| Posted: Wed 18 Jun, 2008 8:08 am Post subject: |
|
|
It should be pointed out to Adam that the parts of the garniture shown in his picture are mounted on a Tappelbrust that does not belong to the garniture, but was apparently handy for purposes of display.
jamesarlen.com
|
|
|
|
|
|
Adam Bodorics
Industry Professional
|
| Posted: Wed 18 Jun, 2008 1:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
So easy for you all, having acces to books... Actual shipping times for books to Hungary are ridiculous, and I can't afford paying for a book that I'll receive a year later... :S
Thank you all!
...
Pardon my ignorance but what's exactly a Tappelbrust? I searched it by Google and the only result was this thread... I get it that it's the breastplate, I just don't know this type.
|
|
|
|
|
Russ Thomas
Industry Professional
|
| Posted: Wed 18 Jun, 2008 11:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Well noted James !
Adam,
The tappelbrust is a form of breastplate,originating in Germany, where the front comes out into a point. They begin to develop in about 1530. Some of these were quite extreme in form, with a quite long and well defined point. Others were slighty flatter with a point lower down on the front. They were used, in various forms, more or less upto the end of the 16th century.
Russ
Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero !
http://www.living-history.no
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
This is a standard topic