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Jean Thibodeau
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 Posted: Mon 16 Jun, 2008 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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Just quick recap of vital statistics:
Weight: 4 lb 15 oz
Over All Length: 43 1/2"
Blade length: 36 1/2"
Width of blade at hilt: 3"
Thickness of blade at the guard: 3/8" ( significant distal taper to a thin blade near the point similar in thickness to my Albion
Tritonia: No calipers to get a precise measurement ).
Point of Balance: 4 1/8" from guard.
Center of percussion: 23 1/2" from guard.
Rockwell C: 52, 1075 steel.
Finish: Similar to the Albion one.
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
Last edited by Jean Thibodeau on Mon 16 Jun, 2008 6:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Chris Artman
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| Posted: Mon 16 Jun, 2008 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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That is a beauty! Amazing work... That is an elegant beast of a one-hander....
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Paul Watson
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| Posted: Mon 16 Jun, 2008 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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Great to hear that such a big sword still handles well. Even better to hear that you are happpy with it. The fullered and hollow ground blade is very attractive, and from what I understand there are not that many historical examples around. I really like the aesthetics of the pommel, it is simple yet not so simple that it is plain. Does the pommel and the length of the grip comfortably lend itself to hammer grip when in use?
I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, but that which it protects. (Faramir, The Two Towers)
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Mon 16 Jun, 2008 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Paul Watson wrote: | | Great to hear that such a big sword still handles well. Even better to hear that you are happpy with it. The fullered and hollow ground blade is very attractive, and from what I understand there are not that many historical examples around. I really like the aesthetics of the pommel, it is simple yet not so simple that it is plain. Does the pommel and the length of the grip comfortably lend itself to hammer grip when in use? |
Grip length is exactly 4 1/2" so there is some room for the hand to shift closer to the hilt or pommel by 1/2" to 3/4" so a hammer grip is possible but not one fitting tightly between the grip and pommel unless one had a really huge hand.
But this does mean that there is some extra room if one were to use a gauntlet.
Handshake grip is possible but it does put the hand further from the point of balance.
The pommel is very comfortable if the little finger side of the hand is in contact or braced against it because there is not sharp corner there.
I finds that the pommel is very comfortable to hold in the palm of the off hand a bit like a large smooth rock: This makes a twohanded hold possible as I mentioned.
If you look at the pic of Mark holding the sword a few posts back you can see how much room there is on the grip for the hand and the extra bit.  Not sure if you would think that this makes the grip too long for the hammer grip or not ? depends if you think that the hand should completely fill the space between the pommel and guard or not ? I find the grip length gives a lot of options to shift grips: Hope this answers your question.
( NOTE: I think my hand my hand may be a little bigger than Mark's ).
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Paul Watson
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| Posted: Mon 16 Jun, 2008 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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My mistake Jean, I actually meant handshake grip not hammer grip as written.
I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, but that which it protects. (Faramir, The Two Towers)
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Mon 16 Jun, 2008 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Paul Watson wrote: | | My mistake Jean, I actually meant handshake grip not hammer grip as written. |
The pommel is comfortable for the handshake grip but, like I mentioned, it does put the COG further from the hand.
Funny but when I use both hands on the handle the second hand ends ups in a handshake grip on the pommel with the forward hand in hammer grip. 
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Tue 17 Jun, 2008 4:42 am Post subject: |
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| Jean Thibodeau wrote: | The pommel is comfortable for the handshake grip but, like I mentioned, it does put the COG further from the hand.
Funny but when I use both hands on the handle the second hand ends ups in a handshake grip on the pommel with the forward hand in hammer grip. |
| Jean Thibodeau wrote: | Handshake grip is possible but it does put the hand further from the point of balance.
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The handshake grip doesn't mean you shift your hand back toward the pommel. You really just change the angle of your hand, which changes where pressure is applied by your hand. It shouldn't change your hand's relation to the COG much (if at all).
In fact I just picked up my Sovereign and switched from the hammer grip to the handshake grip. My index finger didn't change its location at all, though its angle changed a bit between grips (hammer = basically parallel to cross, handshake = a little angled).
You can do either grip at any point along the grip, though I like to keep my hand nearer to the cross than the pommel in cases where there's room to move around.
The only reason the hand is often so close to the pommel in either grip on Viking swords is because the grips are often short. Hammer vs. handshake in my mind has more to do with angles and firmness than proximity to either guard or pommel. On short grips, the handshake allows the pommel to not dig into the hand. On longer single-hand grips, I don't see a need to slide your had toward the pommel just to go into a handshake grip.
But these are just my opinions, based on my experiences. And maybe I'm misunderstanding you. 
ChadA
http://chadarnow.com/
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Vincent Le Chevalier
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| Posted: Tue 17 Jun, 2008 6:00 am Post subject: |
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| Chad Arnow wrote: |
The handshake grip doesn't mean you shift your hand back toward the pommel. You really just change the angle of your hand, which changes where pressure is applied by your hand. It shouldn't change your hand's relation to the COG much (if at all).
In fact I just picked up my Sovereign and switched from the hammer grip to the handshake grip. My index finger didn't change its location at all, though its angle changed a bit between grips (hammer = basically parallel to cross, handshake = a little angled). |
Still, it is true that the wrist is further towards the back of the handle in a handshake grip. Even if the index finger is at the same place touching the cross, the fact that it is angled means that the whole hand is rotated around it, putting the wrist back. I believe the wrist is the reference point around which our muscles apply torque to keep the sword in position. If the wrist is farther towards the pommel the effort is a bit bigger.
All the more so since a handshake grip naturally invites a more horizontal position of the sword, making the effect of gravity greater still.
On many swords the control and feeling gained by spreading the hand over the handle makes for the little increase in static effort, but with a heavy sword that has quite a close CoG, like this one, perhaps the necessary torque augments faster.
Not sure that's what Jean meant though, but that's a possibility
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Vincent
Ensis Sub Caelo
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Pamela Muir
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| Posted: Tue 17 Jun, 2008 7:40 am Post subject: |
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Congratulations, Jean! That's wonderful news that you have the sword in your hands. Though, I confess I'll miss the updates.
Pamela Muir
Founder/Lead Instructor
Academy of Chivalric Martial Arts
"I need a hero. I'm holding out for a hero 'til the end of the night. He's gotta be strong, And he's gotta be fast, And he's gotta be fresh from the fight." ~Steinman/Pitchford
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Tue 17 Jun, 2008 8:19 am Post subject: |
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Yes I agree with Chad that once the hand is in the handshake grip it is or should change the angle of the hand on the grip.
And that with short grips it's almost the only way to hold the sword if one's hand is too large to fit completely between the guard and pommel.
At the length of my sword's grip I don't really need to use the handshake grip but I tried it out anyway just to be able to give an answer/opinion about how it works with my sword.
I do have the extra option of having my hand close to the guard ( touching it ) or close to the pommel ( Also touching the pommel ), this changes the balance slightly, as I mentioned in the previous posts: But this isn't a handshake grip but the pommel has no sharp corners making this uncomfortable.
To recap all the options:
1) Hand close to guard.
2) Hand close to pommel.
3) Hand in true handshake grip ( At the weight of this sword this becomes counter productive to fast recovery I think and weakens the grip ).
The Not designed for but still work " Oddball " options.
4) Two handed with second hand holding onto the pommel almost like a handshake grip ( Seems to work great for me ).
5) Twohanded with first hand fingering the guard and second hand on pommel and thumb and index finger of second hand pinching an inch of handle. ( Works well and give a little more gripping room but leaves the index finger over the guard vulnerable: Might be better with gauntlets ).
Note the extra length of the grip becomes just right if gauntlets are worn. ( Mercenary Taylor's Wisby ).
Funny story: Sword 1 versus floor lamp 0  I was trying the twohanded grip and going from OCHS left to OCHS
right over my head when the tip of the blade hit the metal knob/switch on top of the lamp about at shoulder height. 
First thing I did was look at the edge to check for damage to the sword and I'm glad to say that I can't even find the spot where the sword hit the metal of the knob or the metal of the supporting steel rod on which the lamps clamp to which I think I also hit.
Oh, I now have to really work hard to turn this lamp on or off as there is only a 1mm of grabbable nub of Knob left.
Not sure if the knob broke clean off or was cut off ( can't find it ) ! Nice metal ringing sound though !
( EDITED: Oh, found the Knob and it did break off but it has a nice dent/cut in it ).
The OCHS to OCHS did feel nice though if unfortunately TOO effective.
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Vincent Le Chevalier
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| Posted: Tue 17 Jun, 2008 9:05 am Post subject: |
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| Jean Thibodeau wrote: | Funny story: Sword 1 versus floor lamp 0 I was trying the twohanded grip and going from OCHS left to OCHS
right over my head when the tip of the blade hit the metal knob/switch on top of the lamp about at shoulder height. |
Ah, the joys of indoor swordsmanship
With such a beast I doubt the damage to the furniture/walls/ceiling will stop soon
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Vincent
Ensis Sub Caelo
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Scott Kowalski
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| Posted: Tue 17 Jun, 2008 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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It is a shame that this thread seems to be at an end. It has been informative seeing what has gone into making your sword Jean. I know I for one have been highly impressed by how Mark has gone above and beyond to make this project work to both of your satisfaction so much so that I will be getting intouch with them for a project I have in mind. Though nothing to this degree.
Now start another thread Jean so we can go into detail about the handling characteristics and cutting abilities of this beast. 
Scott
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Tue 17 Jun, 2008 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Scott Kowalski wrote: | It is a shame that this thread seems to be at an end. It has been informative seeing what has gone into making your sword Jean. I know I for one have been highly impressed by how Mark has gone above and beyond to make this project work to both of your satisfaction so much so that I will be getting intouch with them for a project I have in mind. Though nothing to this degree.
Now start another thread Jean so we can go into detail about the handling characteristics and cutting abilities of this beast.
Scott |
Handling I sort of covered at least to the limits of my experience at the moment: I might have more to say if I take a sword and buckler 1:33 course available at my longsword group, but learning one discipline " Longsword " is challenging enough without trying to learn two at the same time, although there is some skill crossover involved that should make that easier eventually. ( Meaning training relevant to one handed sword use, not to say that the RavenWolf would be ideal for 1:33 but it would be for sword and kite shield ).
Test cutting ! Well not like my last test cutting where nails were used to hold the target " fruit " and I hit those nails 3 times with a much less expensive sword.  So if I can figure out a less risky to the sword target holder I might try some light test cutting with it eventually.
Yes, it's sort of hard to let this topic go, but maybe Mark will chime in with a post about what he learned working on this and his " honest " opinion about the sword's handling and how he got it to be so agile in spite of it's size.
Now the Tritonia benefits from being a close copy of the original, so it's no surprise that it's handling feels so good, so I think that Mark managed to get a sword with similar good handling that wasn't closely based on the measurements of a historically documented sword: I think this says a great deal about his learned or innate skill and talent as a sword maker.
The Tritonia is a very good sword to compare to this one in the sense that few would dispute that the Tritonia handles very well for it's type but it's certainly not a sword type that is ideal for everyone or every style of swordsmanship.
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Mark G.
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Wed 18 Jun, 2008 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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I feel a little weird about posting here now that my face has been revealed. I prefer sticking to the shadows.... For the record, I am around 6'3". Now, I think we need to get a picture of Jean posted here, holding RavenWolf.
Anyway, I would have to agree with Scott in that it's a shame there may actually be an end to this topic. This project has been through quite a lot, and I appreciate everyone sticking with it through all of the delays and setbacks. Of course, most of that appreciation has to go to Jean. I just hope that the sword he received was worth all of the wait. A lot was learned with all of the heat treating issues, and I certainly got plenty of practice at grinding the blade. All said and done, the setbacks probably improved the end product.
www.ollinsworddesign.com
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Thu 19 Jun, 2008 4:33 am Post subject: |
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| Mark G. wrote: | | I feel a little weird about posting here now that my face has been revealed. I prefer sticking to the shadows.... |
Yes, SHADOWS ........ with a little Photoshop I added a big tree casting a shadow on Mark and almost hiding him.
 Attachment: 40.38 KB
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Mark G.
Industry Professional
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Matthew Grzybowski
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Fri 01 Aug, 2008 5:39 am Post subject: |
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Thanks again to everyone for the great comments and conversations about the RavenWolf. It was so much fun to work on and to watch this thread take off.
In summary, we've updated the OlliN site with the stats and pics as we usually do at the end of a project.
http://www.ollinsworddesign.com/osd-custom-RW.html
Enjoy!
Best.
Matt
OlliN Sword Design
Handmade collectible arms, custom swords, and sculpture
www.ollinsworddesign.com
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Fri 01 Aug, 2008 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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And the nice thing is that I can go see the pics or I can just go see the sword itself. 
And to comment on what OlliN says on their site I can say that the process was equally fun from my side and that the quality of communication shown is what is needed for a project to evolve and finish with both parties ending up in agreement about what the design should be.
It's almost impossible to resolve all design questions at the start and have it not evolve as unexpected issues or questions/decision points are reached.
Still very happy with the sword and I can repeat that it's the easiest to handle, arguably too heavy sword, to handle as it rotates naturally mid-blade and feels much lighter than it is: The weight issue is a real one but it was a design meant to test the extremes of what is possible.
If someone wanted to have the same sword made I would tell them to have it made the same if they accepted that the weight is at the maximum or maybe over what a onehander should be. If all the dimensions where reduced to what I calculated as being 5/6 of the present sword the weight with the same handling ( proportionally ) would be by my estimate 3 pounds.
Just recapping/summarizing my numerous previous comments and my current opinion(s): Like I said I'm still very happy with it and surprised by how well it handles, but this is my subjective opinion, I only mention the weight issue as objectively I'm sure others might question MY decision to make it this big and heavy and to be as honest about it as I can.
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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This is a standard topic