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Forum Index > Off-topic Talk > Armor with modern improvements;what would you do? Reply to topic
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Joel Whitmore




Location: Simmesport, LA
Joined: 25 Aug 2003

Posts: 342

PostPosted: Sat 03 Apr, 2004 9:30 am    Post subject: Armor with modern improvements;what would you do?         Reply with quote

Not sure where this topic would go so I'll place it here. I was wondering what we could do to improve on design, manufacturing methods or materials of medieval armor. Would you heat treat it with modern methods ( L-6 Bainite maile?) or use different materials ( carbon fibre plate? kevlar gambeson?). Just want to see what your minds come up with. Suppose you were going to be sent back to the Battle of Sterling or Poiters and your armor had to look period but be made any way you want? What would you do? Let your minds go wild.
Eek! Eek!

Joel
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Allen W





Joined: 02 Mar 2004

Posts: 285

PostPosted: Sat 03 Apr, 2004 9:47 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Going back to ancient battles I would make relative buoyancy a priority. Too many drowning deaths. I am not sure how you would do that though. As I understand it, kevlar loses much of its effectiveness when damp so spectra would probably be my choice for gambeson/arming doublet. In any event modern under armor wicking vests and shirts would be a must.
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David Quivey




Location: Davis, California
Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Reading list: 21 books

Posts: 79

PostPosted: Sat 03 Apr, 2004 10:17 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

buoyancy... you know, somehow visualizing armoured combatants in bright red foam life jackets doesn't seem too... dignified Big Grin
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Zach Stambaugh





Joined: 08 Mar 2004

Posts: 73

PostPosted: Fri 09 Apr, 2004 9:29 pm    Post subject: titanium         Reply with quote

I would use titanium. it is stronger lighter and does not rust. there is also a kind of materiel that resists cutting. it is a plastic fibre. they make gloves out of it for butchers. it is about an eighth of an inch thick and flexible it is light and breathes. it is vulnerable to stabs. a blend of layers of that and kevlar.
It is better to be over careful a hundred times than dead once. --- Mark Twain (give or take a slight misquote)
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Russ Ellis
Industry Professional




Joined: 20 Aug 2003
Reading list: 42 books

Posts: 2,607

PostPosted: Fri 09 Apr, 2004 10:26 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well you could always have that explosive "active armor" like they put on an Abrams... Happy
TRITONWORKS Custom Scabbards
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Geoff Wood




Location: UK
Joined: 31 Aug 2003

Posts: 634

PostPosted: Sat 10 Apr, 2004 12:38 am    Post subject: Re: titanium         Reply with quote

Zach Stambaugh wrote:
I would use titanium. it is stronger lighter and does not rust. there is also a kind of materiel that resists cutting. it is a plastic fibre. they make gloves out of it for butchers. it is about an eighth of an inch thick and flexible it is light and breathes. it is vulnerable to stabs. a blend of layers of that and kevlar.


We've found that all of the woven or knitted butchers stuff we've tried is vulnerable to stabs, as you say. Even the light metal mail on offer is better for cuts and won't stop a fine tip. The only stab resistance gloves I've seen have been either very thick leather or have steel plates in them, which kind of goes back to the historical examples.
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David R. Glier





Joined: 01 Mar 2004

Posts: 146

PostPosted: Sat 10 Apr, 2004 9:51 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I've never seen a stab wound through those welded stainless maille gloves -not from a boning knife, anyway. You can poke yourself through them with a hook, but you're not gonna get hurt.


Personaly, I'd go hybrid. If you were serious about this, I'd look at the Wisby book and take a survery of where the most common wounds fell. Those pieces, I'd want in 1095 and heat-treated -like helmet, left leg, left vambrace, center of the back, etc. All articulations and high-wear areas should be heat treated. Low wound-incidence areas could be Ti. Ought to cut a fair bit of weight.
Since I'm a 15th century person, I'd want welded stainless for all my maille gussets.
I'd want gloves with rubber grips for inside my gauntlets -like batter's gloves- and high-top football cleats under my sabbatons.
All fabric garments next to the skin ought to be polypropylene to wick away moisture.
The ancients pretty much perfected their padding the way they had it, but we might try using gell liners for inside the helmet, and under the shoulders, elbows, and knees.

Armor-defeating weapons, like maces, polaxes and warhammers would probably best be made out of a modern Chrome-Vanadium alloy, and if the weapon has langets you could likely get away with using a fiberglass pole to keep the weight at the ends -where it belongs.
And one of Mr. Trim's swords with a lexan sheath, thank you. =)

And finally, since we're out there in la-la land anyway, I think I'd have my suit wired for sound with an internal MP3 player (perhaps in the backplate) for getting pumped up, and an in-helmet mic, and an accompanying amp and loudspeaker for the battle itself.
Meneleus, good at the war-shout, would have approved. Wink
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Geoff Wood




Location: UK
Joined: 31 Aug 2003

Posts: 634

PostPosted: Sun 11 Apr, 2004 1:35 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

David R. Glier wrote:
I've never seen a stab wound through those welded stainless maille gloves -not from a boning knife, anyway. You can poke yourself through them with a hook, but you're not gonna get hurt.


David
I'm sure you're right. We tend to fuss about any puncture wounds because of the material we're cutting into (generally infected) and we do use finer points than would be probably practical on a battlefield.
Regards
Geoff
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Brian M




Location: Austin, TX
Joined: 01 Oct 2003

Posts: 500

PostPosted: Fri 16 Apr, 2004 12:31 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Four things:
1) Best possible body heat dissipation. This would entail a modern fabric for the arming coat and possibly a network of small holes drilled in the plate. Body heat buildup is probably the biggest single drawback to (historical) full plate -- especially dismounted.
2) Best possible respiration.
3) Best possible vision.
4) "HY-100" steel throughout. This is the stuff they use to build the hulls of submarines. Incredibly tough.
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Shawn Duncanson




Location: Spokane Wa
Joined: 05 Dec 2003

Posts: 49

PostPosted: Fri 23 Apr, 2004 6:17 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

What about really hard rubber with metal wires in it like a tire for a car with steel radial? Have you ever tried to cut a tire? It is not very easy at all...of course there is the whole thrusting problem. Would Titanium really be a good choice? It is hard and light but generally the harder it is the more it wants to crack.
Not all who wander are lost.
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Steve Maly




Location: OKC, OK
Joined: 23 Aug 2003
Reading list: 23 books

Posts: 257

PostPosted: Fri 23 Apr, 2004 6:42 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

David R. Glier wrote:
And finally, since we're out there in la-la land anyway, I think I'd have my suit wired for sound with an internal MP3 player (perhaps in the backplate) for getting pumped up, and an in-helmet mic, and an accompanying amp and loudspeaker for the battle itself.
Meneleus, good at the war-shout, would have approved. Wink


Yeah, and holographic topographic projection of the battlesite to monitor troop movements...and a couple of missle launchers like the "Predator" alien with visual targeting. Razz The in-helmet mic/headphones would help in talking to your allies and keeping everyone to the gameplan. After wearing chainmail last Halloween, I'd also vote for climate control--it was either burning up next to a heat source or freezing in the slightest breeze. Eek!

"When the only tool you own is a hammer, every problem begins to resemble a nail." ~A. Maslow
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Zach Stambaugh





Joined: 08 Mar 2004

Posts: 73

PostPosted: Fri 23 Apr, 2004 10:44 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Shawn Duncanson wrote:
What about really hard rubber with metal wires in it like a tire for a car with steel radial? Have you ever tried to cut a tire? It is not very easy at all...of course there is the whole thrusting problem. Would Titanium really be a good choice? It is hard and light but generally the harder it is the more it wants to crack.


metal is lighter tougher and cooler than rubber. i have punctured tires with a knife. it is not that difficult with good technique.

titanium is hard lkight and ductile. it can be made brittle to a combination of high temperatures and radiation. so hopefully your dystopia scenario is a resuslt of a global plague, rather than the usual nuclear holocaust.

It is better to be over careful a hundred times than dead once. --- Mark Twain (give or take a slight misquote)
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David R. Glier





Joined: 01 Mar 2004

Posts: 146

PostPosted: Wed 28 Apr, 2004 1:47 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

No-Fog lexan eyeslit inserts! WAY to many people died by a dagger through the eye. *shudder*
Maybe a Camelback hydration system too, stashed away in the back plate.

Now If I just had the budget for all this stuff... Cool
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Zach Stambaugh





Joined: 08 Mar 2004

Posts: 73

PostPosted: Wed 28 Apr, 2004 10:16 pm    Post subject: i agree         Reply with quote

at 5/8 " lexan is bulletproof. oughta stop arrows too. dull agreement with the previous post. i think a motorcycle helmet with metal skin and neck guards would work pretty well. amsorbs impact is comfortable, can come wired for radio HUD etc. i would definitely want 360* viewing, heat , night vision in a band at the top of my visor.
It is better to be over careful a hundred times than dead once. --- Mark Twain (give or take a slight misquote)
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Steve Fabert





Joined: 03 Mar 2004
Likes: 10 pages

Posts: 493

PostPosted: Thu 29 Apr, 2004 7:51 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here's something you never even could have wished for, it's so novel - flexible fabric that hardens when anything hits, pokes, or strikes it. http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_story...77,00.html
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