14th Century Hunting Knife Info Needed -- myArmoury.com

Ed T.

I am trying to research the medieval hunting knife as seen in the manuscript(s) “Livre de la Chasse” by Gaston Phebus. If you look at the attached pictures it appears (to me) that the knife has a 7-8” bellied blade, maybe a clipped point, with a handle that is carved wood or bone in a pistol shape. The circles on the handles suggest scales with rivets.

The shape of the blade has some of the characteristics of a modern skinning knife, which I’m guessing it was. Does anybody have information regarding late 14th century hunting knives? Are there any originals documented in museum or private collections?

Thanks, Ed Thyberg - Baltimore, Maryland

Craig Johnson · Industry Professional

You could check out these two links there maybe something along those lines

Museo del Coltello

McCord Museum

Also the Knives and Scabbards book from the London Museum would probably have references to check.

Best
Craig

Hugh Fuller · Posted: Wed 30 Apr, 2008 8:08 am Post subject:

You may wish to look at the Lutel catalogue under the "Knives" heading as they have several choices that seem to fit your description albeit some are called Seaxes.
http://www.lutel.cz/index_.php?en=1

Art Elwell maintains a stock of Lutel items and will ship w/o the backlog that Lutel has, plus you do not have the hassle of international shipping and payment. You need to email him for a lst ofwhat he has on hand and gfor his prices. I have bought my Lutel products from him and found him to be a very decent person with whom to deal as well as his having a very reasonable mark-up on what he offers.
http://www.a-work-of-art.net/

Chad Arnow · myArmoury Team

Hugh Fuller · Posted: Wed 30 Apr, 2008 11:50 am Post subject:

Have you looked at it, Chad? About all that are on it are his Del Tin offerings which are better organized than before.

Chad Arnow · myArmoury Team

B. Fulton · Posted: Wed 30 Apr, 2008 2:09 pm Post subject:

Leeds and the Musee de l' Armee both have extensive hunting knife collections. I took a few pics (not primarily being interested in those). Leeds has a roomful of nothing but hunting equipment from that time period (crossbows, match/wheellocks, knives, hunting swords, bows, boar spears, etc).

Kelly Powell · Posted: Wed 30 Apr, 2008 2:37 pm Post subject:

I forgot who is offering it, but that looks like the "fighting messer" some company is selling.....Basically a more refined saax, obviously smiths started figuring out the strong points of blade shapes and started catering to it.

Ed T. · Posted: Wed 30 Apr, 2008 3:13 pm Post subject:

Thanks to all who have taken the time to reply so far. I've pre-ordered the paperback Knives and Scabbards from Amazon but I don't know when it will be available. The hardback must be out of print because the only book I could find was used at $200!

I've been searching through online auction cataloges and antique dealers but have not turned up anything really close. I did find two modern reproductions of knives that have similar features to the Gaston Phebus hunting knives. The first was made by Tod's Stuff

The second by Fire Dog Forge

The search continues.

Leo Todeschini · Industry Professional

Hi Guys,

Just to make it clear, that damascus hunter was a specific commission from a couple of years ago as and was to a design I was largely given and of a modern shape, although I made the bolsters and the scabbard in a medieval way, it was in no way meant to be a medieval knife.

On other matters, try a web search for Paul Meekins books, a UK dealer of new and secondhand history related books; nice chap, knows his stuff and his stock and I would imagine would be able to help you for far less than 200 bucks.

Tod

Ed T. · Posted: Tue 06 May, 2008 12:57 pm Post subject:

I have not been able to find an extant example of the Gaston Phebus hunting knife but I did find a "replica" which the manufacturer only referrences the manuscript as inspiration.

http://bractea.freha.pl/knives.html#LKn

I sure would like to be able to document an actual artifact before making a commission or purchase.

Ed

Sean Flynt · Posted: Tue 06 May, 2008 2:15 pm Post subject:

I have one of these in progress on my workbench. See my original thread on the subject, with lots of 15th c. examples and great advice from knowledgeable folks.

http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...t=hauswehr

Ed T. · Posted: Tue 06 May, 2008 5:47 pm Post subject:

Thanks Sean. Lots of good info.

Sean Flynt · Posted: Wed 07 May, 2008 12:42 pm Post subject:

By the way, the National Library of France (BNF) lists that illuminated edition as 15th c. Depending on when this was illuminated, it could represent a knife of any time between 1400 and 1500. Given its similarity to those I posted in my thread, yours may be middle-to-late 15th. But these simple forms were pretty long-lived so it could easily be a late 14th c. type as well.

Ed T. · Posted: Wed 07 May, 2008 1:35 pm Post subject:

The Morgan Museum & Library (NYC) has an unbound manuscript on exhibit until August 10, 2008. Here is a link to their web site and a blurb about when the book was written and illustrated. http://themorgan.org/exhibitions/exhibition.asp?id=2

"The most influential medieval treatise on hunting was Le Livre de la chasse, written by Gaston Phoebus between 1387 and 1389. The forty-six surviving manuscripts and numerous printed editions of the text testify to its popularity. The Morgan Library & Museum is fortunate in possessing one of the two most luxuriously illustrated manuscripts; the other, in the Bibliothèque nationale de France, was made at the same time and also contains eighty-seven miniatures. Both were made in Paris about 1407 and were probably commissioned by John the Fearless."

Ed