[Lafayette C Curtis]

How completely did the Zischagge replace the burgonet in 17th-century Germany? More specifically, would it still be accurate to represent fairly large numbers of armored German horsemen from the 1650s or 1660s with burgonets rather than Zischagges? (Or at least a more-or-less even mixture of both instead of an all-Zischagge ensemble.)

[Daniel Staberg]

The burgonet disapeared rapidly in the first decade of the 17th Century as it was replaced either by close helmets of various types or 'Hungarian pots'. Of course troops drawing on older stocks of armour coudl have used it but I can find no trace of it bein manufacutred in the 30-Years War period.

By 1650's and 1660's many (most?) cavalry would not even have worn the Zischägge, German cavalry in action in Poland and Denmark 1655 to 1660 is consistently shown in hats, not helmets.

[Lafayette C Curtis]

Very interesting. What did those cavalrymen wear from the neck downwards, then? Still the old cuirass with arms and tassets, or the later-style armless and tasset-less cuirass along with a waistcoat and cravat? My knowledge of cavalry equipment in the long gap between the 30YW and the Wars of the Spanish Succession is really shaky, so I hope you wouldn't mind me milking you out this way....

[Daniel Staberg]

The full cuirassier harness had vanished well before the end of the 30YW, by the early 1640's even an elite regiment like Alt-Piccolomini only had 1/6 of it's men in full cuirassier harness and the Lt-Colo was almost begging the Colonel to be allowed to get stop using the few remaining suits as well. And even in the 1620's when cuirassiers were supposed to wear the full harness and such harnesses were made by the thousands for the armies of Europe you find examples of cuirassiers who have discarde part or all of their armour. A regiment raised by Colonge for service with the army of the Catholic Leauge is noted as having discarded all body armour except the helmets and the army has thus ended up with an expensive unit which is worse equipped than a regiment of harquebusiers.

The ideal cuirassier equipment was by the 1640's a helmet together with back and breast plates and possibly a bridle gauntlet and buff coat. Helmets generally seems to have seen only limited use in the late/post-TYW period. When the Swedish cavalry went to war with Poland-Lithuania in 1655 the native troopers were ordered to leave their helmets at home.

From 1650 onward armour began to disapear altogether in several armies, with a few exceptions the French fought unarmoured in the wars of Loius XIV. Others such as the Swedes retained buffocoats and the breast plate at least on paper in the 1670's

As a very general rule the armies fighting in Western Europre were more likely to completly abandon armour while those fightign in Eastern Europe retained it. The Imperial, Bavarian and Saxon cuirassiers wore buffcoat, back-andbreast plates and helmets in the Turkish war of 1680's but wore hats when fighting the French. Clearly the Zischagge was seen as a worthile piece of equipment when facing Ottoman sipahis but an encumbernace when fightign French chevaux-legers.