[Scott Eschenbrenner]

Hello all,

I've been reading the forums for a while and I have learned quite a lot beyond the initial knowledge I had on medieval weapons and armour. My goal is to become a historian later in life, possibly focusing on the high middle ages in Europe. Although I spend most of my time researching the general history (military and otherwise) of the epoch, I have a particular interest in the history of technology and especially the development of armour. I wrote a college paper several years ago on the development of plate in the 14th century, but I have to say the collective knowledge on this board is far ahead of the information I had back then.

While traveling to Bahrain in 2006, we stopped over in Germany and spent a day driving along the Rhine visiting castles. I was particularly impressed by Marksburg and took a few photos, including some of the harnesses they had on display. The most interesting was a 15th century piece with a grand bascinet. In the background you can also see what I guess is a more stereotypical "gothic" harness, presumably of later make.



I'm not sure what the date of manufacture was, or even if the bascinet was originally part of the harness, as the finish looks a little different.



What is the likely period for this harness and the bascinet? If people are interested, I have other pictures available at higher resolution, but I didn't want to upload too much at once.

[James Arlen Gillaspie]

The Marksburg armours are modern, made to order to illustrate a number of historical styles.

[Scott Eschenbrenner]

Ah! So they're all repros. Well I guess there's not much to learn then. I suppose the tour guide may have mentioned that, but his English was not so great and my German is scheisse, so...

It did get me thinking about grand bascinets, however, and the evolution of headgear during the 15th century in general. For example, James, on the harness that is shown in your avatar, would that be considered a grand bascinet, or simply a bascinet with a separate bevor/gorget? I had previously assumed that all later bascinets (after the mail aventail went away) were integral with their plate neck protection.

[James Arlen Gillaspie]

There's some controversy, but I believe that the typical English field armour of Henry V's time features a separate gorget that acts as a plate reinforce for the aventail up until about 1430. Their foes, the French, on the other hand, were clearly using true grand bacinets much earlier. I think that the increasing use of true grand bacinets among the English was spurred by their losses starting with Jeanne d'Arc. Up till then, their armour was working for them, so why change? Incidently, the picture you posted was a repro of a very famous effigy, but not with that helm. Look very, very carefully at the breastplate....

[Scott Eschenbrenner]

Is it based on the Earl of Warwick (Richard Beauchamp's) effigy?

Regarding the transition from bascinet to grand bascinet, this is something I've been curious about lately. I would imagine having a separate gorget allows for better situational awareness (with the ability to move your head to the sides a bit), and maybe the ability to don and doff the helmet without assistance? Whereas the grand bascinet provides greater protection for the neck by transferring the force of impacts to the shoulders?

I guess at some point the extra protection was deemed insufficient to counter the loss in visibility, and the sallet/bevor and armet became more popular for field use. I think I've seen numerous mid-century depictions of the grand bascinet in use for tournaments, but it's a little harder to pin down the use of helmets in the field and how they might have differed.

[Chuck Russell]

i loved that castle