Need 15th c. helmet advice -- myArmoury.com

Bill Grandy · myArmoury Team

I'm looking for advice for my mid-15th c. harness (see attached photo). I would like a new helmet (the old one is a little too big for me), and I'm likely going to go through bestarmour.com.

I'm thinking about another sallet, and am likely going to go with the SS 4.5 seen here:

With the NG 2.1 bevor:

However, I was debating other options. I'm thinking of the possibility of an open faced sallet with bevor, specifically the SS 1.5:

I'm not sure if the last one would fit with my harness or not. I also was debating a different type of helmet altogether. I've always been fond of the barbuta, such as the BB 1.1:

...but that one doesn't seem to fit my harness. Thoughts?

And I would also like opinions on other options as well. I'm looking for historical accuracy, and I'd like to stay below $800 (I'd like the price to be much less, if possible). This harness is used primarily for demonstration of WMA techniques. I don't really do any free play in it, though I do occassionally do light harnisfechten. As such, its okay if I use an open faced helmet (I usually have my visor up while teaching anyway), and it's okay if the gauge is not that thick (but I don't want it to be too light, either).

Michael Edelson · Posted: Sat 01 Dec, 2007 9:22 am Post subject:

Hi Bill,

This isn't about your hemlet, but I noticed you have the windlass arms...

The couters on those arms are actualluy quite nice, but for some reason they make them way too "open", to the point of being inaccurate and a bit ridiculous. Look at your picture and how they stick out like silly litttle wings. This is easily remedied, however, by simply "squashing" them to size for your arms.

Just put them on a flat surface and push them closed untill they float just a bit over your arms.

Bill Grandy · myArmoury Team

Douglas Huxtable · Posted: Sat 01 Dec, 2007 10:12 am Post subject:

Hi Bill,

Although im not an expert I would say you should definately go with the visored-sallet, but there are plenty of awesome sallets on bestarmour.com's website, I think that the one you posted and many other visored-sallets of theirs would look awesome with your harness and fairly accurate as although for some reason i cant see the whole pic of your harness it looks like you have some very gothic-like parts which matches the visored-sallet.
I dont personally think the open faced sallet would go very well with the bevor youve chosen and your harness.
Big Grin

James Barker · Posted: Tue 04 Dec, 2007 6:47 am Post subject:

Bill

What part of the 15th c do you want to do and what area? Things like articulated tails and reinforcements on the crown are later 15th century features.

Torsten F.H. Wilke · Posted: Tue 04 Dec, 2007 8:18 am Post subject:

Bill, I would like to recommend the open-faced sallet. Not for any particular historical reasons, just what seems to fit your personality if one can truly guess at a personality on the internet. And, those helms seem to be fairly unique these days...

Sean Flynt · Posted: Tue 04 Dec, 2007 8:52 am Post subject:

What sallet are you using currently, Bill? What about it isn't working for you, other than size?

Bill Grandy · myArmoury Team

Sean Flynt · Posted: Tue 04 Dec, 2007 9:01 am Post subject:

I would also put in a vote for the open-faced sallet. So much armour in the mid-15th c. came from Northern Italy, and the Italians loved them some open-faced celatas. Big Grin

This type also has a distinct advantage for instruction, since it doesn't obstruct your voice or vision. Some might think of the type as inappropriate for someone of rank and wealth, but one can see mounted men at arms wearing these in contemporary artwork. You'd save a bundle, too.

There is a visorless, articulated-tail Brescian sallet of ca. 1475 in the Churburg armoury, but the Best Armour sallet looks a bit off to me for some reason. If they have a "jawbone"-visored sallet with a longer fixed tail, you might consider that or just a typical export sallet.

Sean Flynt · Posted: Tue 04 Dec, 2007 9:18 am Post subject:

Italians, ca. 1466:

James Barker · Posted: Tue 04 Dec, 2007 9:38 am Post subject:

For a German look I would aim for a long tail without articulation. You could do a solid visor as well but I would go with one you can lift so you could lower it if you want too.

Jean Thibodeau · Posted: Tue 04 Dec, 2007 8:49 pm Post subject:

Have a look here: http://www.flarcheveque.com/#

Click on English and then products, helmets and you will see a variety of visored and open faced Sallets.

The is also the in stock section as I don't know what his production times to delivery are like.

I've seen his work up close and it's impressive.

A couple of the open face ones seem within your price range.

Bill Grandy · myArmoury Team

Thanks all for the input. I'm still debating the pros and cons of various styles.

Bill Grandy · myArmoury Team

Bill Grandy · myArmoury Team

While it definately has a more Italian look to it, what are people's opinion of a barbuta? Does it work with the harness above?

Here are two somewhat similar harnesses to mine (courtesy of bestarmour.com), one with barbuta, one with sallet & bevor.

and

Sean Flynt · Posted: Wed 05 Dec, 2007 7:27 am Post subject:

Bill Grandy · myArmoury Team

Sean Flynt · Posted: Wed 05 Dec, 2007 8:45 am Post subject:

FWIW, it doesn't look too big from this angle. Compare to this one at the RA Leeds (I forget where online I found this):

Jean Thibodeau · Posted: Wed 05 Dec, 2007 9:31 pm Post subject:

Being a bit on the big side can be a good thing as one wants the bevor edge and the sallet not get in the way of each other.

Oh, even with the open face sallet I think one can get a lot of protection to the upper face by just " Turtleling " the head by shrugging the shoulders up ? Just my theory, curious if it makes sense to others.

With a visored sallet there can be a gap between the bottom edge of the sallet and the top edge of the bevor and this can be an advantage as one can get a breath of air tilting back the head and get protection by the previously mentioned
" Turtleling ".

By the way wouldn't an upward thrust aiming for under the rim of the sallet and over the rim of the bevor have been a basic halfswording target ? ( Just a little drifting into armoured combat: Hope not too much off-topic, but choosing the type of sallet is a compromise between comfort, vision/breathing and level of coverage ).

Chuck Russell · Posted: Thu 06 Dec, 2007 4:50 am Post subject:

have you checked on Best Armoury's wait time? last i heard it was almost 2 years on the wait. also if you order from them you need to be very specific with your head size. Lord Greys ordered a few helmets from them and most were too small to put in proper liners. So you need to remember to tell them you want to put a liner in the helmet before hand