Scottish burgonet -- myArmoury.com

C.O. Butcher · Posted: Sun 22 Jul, 2007 12:04 am Post subject: Scottish burgonet

I am looking to find a Scottish burgonet that I can use in SCA style combat. I have been able to find these helms in 18 gauge steel but that is to light to be allowed for combat use in the SCA. I would like to see one made with a top of 14 gauge steel and sides of 16 gauge steel with a decent bar grill but I haven't been able to find any online. Does anyone have any information?

Allen Reed · Posted: Mon 23 Jul, 2007 8:45 am Post subject: Re: Scottish burgonet

Gordon Frye · Posted: Mon 23 Jul, 2007 2:41 pm Post subject:

Check out Armour Archive: http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB2/index.php They have guys posting such things for sale fairly regularly, and LOTS of armourers hang out there.

Cheers,

Gordon

C.O. Butcher · Posted: Tue 31 Jul, 2007 4:14 am Post subject:

Thank you for the information and the link to the armour archive. That was very helpful. Of course now I have more questions. Where can I get plans for an Allmayne Collar? I could try to wing it but I would much rather have some sort of plan to follow like the one that I found for the placing of the plates for a jack of plates. Do you have any information that I would find useful?
Thanks again.

Gordon Frye · Posted: Tue 31 Jul, 2007 9:45 am Post subject:

I would again go to Armour Archive and post a request for a pattern for an Almayne Collar. There are some interesting guys there who have LOTS of arcane knowledge on armour, so if someone has a pattern, they'll probably show up there at some point.

I don't know of anyone who's making an Almayne Collar as a standard production item, but you might send an email to Allan Senefelder at Mercenary's Tailor. He's been known to pump out some interesting items when he's not too busy with his standard off-the-shelf inventory.

http://www.merctailor.com

Cheers!

Gordon

C.O. Butcher · Posted: Wed 01 Aug, 2007 3:19 am Post subject:

Gordon, once again I must say thank you for your sound and logical advice. I appreciate you taking the time to help me out.

C.O. Butcher · Posted: Wed 21 Nov, 2007 5:35 am Post subject:

After months of research and talking to people both on myArmoury and around the area where I live I have found an armourer that seems to be making a decent burgonet. The thing that I like about it is that it has two different buffs; a historical full plate piece and a more modern (to my thinking) bar grill. The hem also seems to be made of a thick enough gage steel to be allowed in SCA fighting. It says that the burgonet is made of 14 gage mild steel. The price isn't very expensive ( I have seen a few for almost a thousand dollars ) but from the pictures that I have seen absolutely gorgeous. This address should take you straight to the pictures.

http://sussen.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/product17.html

I haven't seen or handled the piece in person but the people in the SCA around here in CT have had dealing with this particular armourer and say that his stuff is of good quality for SCA combat.

I haven't been able to really come across any plans for an Allmayne Collar but looks to be basically just a late period gorget with lames attached at the sides to protect just above the shoulder joint, the joint itself, and the upper arms to just above the elbow. As a do-it-yourself project it doesn't look that hard as long as you have the materials aka steel, leather, and rivets and the tools which basically would be a shear or some sort, a hammer, a punch or drill. The hardest part that I can see would be the rolling of the edge on the gorget like piece even that wouldn't be that hard if you've done any armour making.

Randall Moffett · Posted: Wed 21 Nov, 2007 9:09 am Post subject:

I'd do a removable grill and not use a falling buff unless I was at times a heavy or medium cavalry. The buff was used to turn lighter cavalry into heavier cavalry. In Tobias Capwell's book it has such a garniture examined and it has such a buff used. Of course it is possible that a light cavalry would use it for that extra protection. I love the burgonet and it I was doing a mid 16th I'd wear that helmet as well. I can imagine many armourers could make this type of helmet. If I remember right some originals are made in two halves and joined at the roll at the crest. With a removable grill you can us it for LH as well.

RPM

Ross McDermott · Posted: Fri 11 Jan, 2008 2:32 am Post subject: Scottish burgonet

Commented off line to C.O. Butcher, and it looks as though he has found someone to make his helm.
I on the other hand have taken on the construction of this type of helm personaly, and would still like to get any help that might be available, or just throw my ideas out there for comment. In reviewing other posts to this topic, including discussions on Armour Archive, it is evident that this type of helm presents many challenges to the armourer, and despite the wealth of armourers that have burgonet's for sale, there seem to be very few that are intended to be open face Heavy SCA combat helms. This is what I aim to build, and being a novice armourer at best, I would appreciate any assistance.
Here are some specifics of what details I plan to include and where I have begun: back point top ordered, needed a slight elongating for my abnormaly egg shaped head and had far too much room above my ears besides. Matboard testing of cheek plates, back plates and visor show promise, still looking for hardware, but will probably make my own.
I plan on having bar work attached to a lifting visor that will cover the top half of my face, and bar work attached to each cheek plate that will connect in a ridge from roughly top lip to chin. A pin will lock the cheek plates together and then the bar work from the visor will overlap this barwork and cover the rest of the opening, including a loop of bar work wrapping outside the cheek plates where the cheek bone protrusion is (between the visor and where the bar work starts on the cheek plates). I am using 3/16" S/S Hex stock for the bar work to give it a little extra flair and possibly added strengh over round. The overall impression should be more like an open faced ornately barred grill than a falling buff styled bar grill. Padding and other safety measures are being planned for in the cheek plates, chin and a false collar of sorts. I will post pictures as work progresses. I hope that this does not stray to far into a fantasy style for the myArmoury crowd, but I have seen an example of this kind of helm in action and it looked like it performed well, plus it really fits my persona better than the T-face barbuta I currently use (that was my first helm project).

Shaping the future, from the past,
Ross McDermott
Lord Ruaidhri MacDiarmada in the SCA

Chris Arrington · Posted: Fri 11 Jan, 2008 7:40 am Post subject:

Ross,

Please keep me updated on your project.

I too am a very novice armour maker, but have been interested in the burgonet as well.

And if I can help, let me know.

Ross McDermott · Posted: Fri 04 Apr, 2008 1:38 am Post subject: Burgonet project

I have made some real progress with my helm project and am ready to post some pics and construction details. But I first wanted to see if any one has any pictures, preferably from a period reference but even an Osprey book will do, that show someone wearing a burgonet with the cheek plates folded back. I am having trouble deciding the angle of the hinge placement, and I think that seeing this would help.

Build Your Arms with the Precision of a Surgeon's Instruments,
Ross McDermott
Lord Ruaidhri MacDiarmada