Spear Brainstorm -- myArmoury.com

Sean Flynt · Posted: Thu 18 Oct, 2007 8:35 am Post subject: Spear Brainstorm

I've wanted a good spear of the late 15th c. for awhile, but didn't see anything appropriate among the stuff I can afford, and nothing I can afford among the stuff that looked appropriate. Then lightning struck when I glanced at the Hanwei Viking Throwing Spear. It has the general profile of many late 15th c. Italian spiedi da guerra, including one of my favorite spears (at the Frazier). Can I jump six centuries with some filework and a wicked rivet? We'll see.... Big Grin

Michael Ekelmann · Posted: Thu 18 Oct, 2007 1:10 pm Post subject:

From just looking at the pictures, I'd say that you could. The hanwei does look quire similar to the period example you have. Really the only thing making it "viking" is the decorative work on the socket.

Gary A. Chelette · Posted: Thu 18 Oct, 2007 2:11 pm Post subject:

Sean Flynt · Posted: Fri 19 Oct, 2007 6:38 am Post subject:

Chris Last · Posted: Fri 19 Oct, 2007 8:29 am Post subject:

I am eagerly looking forward to seeing what you do for the hook. I love that piece and thing its a great fit for the Hanwei viking spear.

Randall Moffett · Posted: Fri 19 Oct, 2007 9:24 am Post subject:

GEt over to a hardwarestore adn see what type of coat hooks they have..... you may be able to then get some bar stock, hammer one end squarish then peen it into the bottom of the hook? You'd need an angle grinder to grind the hook down.

RPM

Sean Flynt · Posted: Mon 22 Oct, 2007 9:37 am Post subject:

I'm wondering if that huge rivet block is just a nut/peen block. Some of those large sallet rivets are made by passing a thinner shank through the formed block, then peening that small shank. I could make the block out of square stock. I think I could make the hook out of round stock, tapered to a point, then ground halfway through to make the hook and further ground to make the shank that passes through the socket and block. May be more trouble than it's worth!

Peter Johnsson · Industry Professional

Sean Flynt · Posted: Mon 22 Oct, 2007 10:46 am Post subject:

Thanks, Peter!

Size was a concern for me as well, which is why I was surprised to see that the "Viking Throwing Spear" is 40 cm! That might put the repro in acceptable range for a 15th c. spear. For once, a manufacturer's poor research serves my purpose!

The subtleties of section are another matter. The original shown above has a tip of square section, while the repro tapers uniformly to the point. It's hard to tell from photos whether or not the repro will be of convincing thickness for those robust 15th spears. Anyway, I figured it would be worth a try for $30.

I used to have a nice little collection of 15th spear photos, mostly from Czerny's, but can't find them. Sad

Sean Flynt · Posted: Mon 22 Oct, 2007 11:09 am Post subject:

Found a few in my files. As Peter notes, these things tend to be quite large. The hunting spear is from Hermann Historica. The others are from Czerny's.

David Martin · Posted: Mon 22 Oct, 2007 6:01 pm Post subject:

Sean,

If you were to write a reference book (ideally rich with photos) on how to turn these sow's ear weapons into the silk purses I've seen you create in these forums, I would buy that book in a heartbeat. I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with this time.

Best of luck!

David

Nathan Keysor · Posted: Mon 22 Oct, 2007 6:29 pm Post subject:

Sean,

I own a couple of these Hanwei spears. One thing to note which is not visible in the stock photos is that the socket on all of them is split up the backside almost to where the blade starts. Here is a pic of what I'm talking about

Nathan

David Martin · Posted: Tue 23 Oct, 2007 5:25 am Post subject:

That's quite a seam there. Thanks for posting that photo, Nathan. I was considering a Hanwei spear, but now I think I'll pass.

Sean: Have you considered the MRL Viking Hewing Spear for this project?

Chad Arnow · myArmoury Team

Gary A. Chelette · Posted: Tue 23 Oct, 2007 6:56 am Post subject:

If you really wanted to, a weld job could fix this and make it look better and be stronger. Since you are going to sand away all that nice inlay work, that should be acceptable.
I'd use a MIG welder to do it fast and clean if you have access to one.

Sean Flynt · Posted: Tue 23 Oct, 2007 6:56 am Post subject:

Yeah, the seam doesn't bother me too much. I'd rather it be solid but as Chad notes even some late medieval spears (and beyond) had crudely-closed sockets, as did some polearms. The main thing to do with this piece is to keep it rather plain. I wouldn't expect to see an open seam on a finer weapon of this period. It's a "munition"-grade spear as far as I'm concerned, and that may even argue against the elaborate rivet and faceted socket. I'll just have to see what looks appropriate when it arrives. Mine may end up looking like this one:

Sean Flynt · Posted: Tue 23 Oct, 2007 6:58 am Post subject:

It's all here! You get it for free!

Sean Flynt · Posted: Tue 23 Oct, 2007 7:31 am Post subject:

A little more candy while we're on the subject....
These are all from the period of my interest--late 15th. I think all of these are Austrian or German. Notice the great variety of spear styles and lengths. I can't find one I'm looking for....shows a large, triangular blade, long socket and rondel, relatively short haft. A rondel could be an interesting addition to a large spear to give it a more German/Austrian flavor ca. 1500.

Sean Flynt · Posted: Thu 25 Oct, 2007 9:45 am Post subject:

I now have the spearhead in hand, and I can report that although it's a very attractive piece, it will be a bit too light and narrow to represent the robust infantry spear pictured in my original post. However, it should work perfectly for the last antique spearhead I posted above. That's my new target. Sorry, folks--no funky hook-rivet this time!

FYI: This spearhead is of two-piece cast construction. The socket appears to be plated with a silver-like metal. This is scraped off relatively easily, revealing a layer of copper beneath. This scared me, at first, because I thought the entire socket might be plated copper, but a little more scraping revealed steel beneath the copper. Hmmm...and....yes, I've just stuck the head to the side of my iMac Laughing Out Loud

and the internal magnet confirms that both blade and socket are steel.

This is a very nice item, well worth the $30 I paid for a pre-owned one or even the full price of ca. $45. Should be good to represent spears from a variety of periods (just not an a "Viking throwing spear," I guess. Big Grin

).

Sean Flynt · Posted: Fri 18 Jan, 2008 6:46 am Post subject:

Here are some photos of the finished project in case anybody is interested. I mounted this to roughly 7.5' for practical reasons (don't want holes in the ceiling of my library). So, it's a light infantry spear. I didn't spend much time on the finish--mainly just removed the deepest file marks. A steel wire brush bit took off most of the blackening of the blade. I closed the seam a bit by compressing the socket in a vise and planned to leave it open the rest of the way but the gap was small enough that peening the rivet closed the seam fully. The second photo shows the seam side of the socket. The blade seems to be cast, and is hollow for approximately half its length, making this head relatively light. The steel is soft and the acute tip of the blade is prone to bending. The hollow construction would not be unusual for 15th century heads, but the steel should be harder. If we could combine Windlass steel and construction with Hanwei design, we'd be on to something good. Still, for around $36 I got a faux late 15th c. spear. One could do worse.