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Luka Borscak
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 Posted: Mon 27 Aug, 2007 12:45 pm Post subject: Windlass and Gen2 swords |
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Hello everybody, I have a few questions which I would like you to answer me...
First, there is this sword - http://minishop.t-com.hr/replikart/ProductDet...mp;gid=38 . It is dated to 1219 I would like to know could it also fit into 12 century (early or if not, at least the period of the Baldwin IV, Saladin and the third crusade) with this type of hilt, pommel and the blade.
Second, there are Generation 2 Norman, 12th century and the Third crusade sword. 12th century sword and the third crusade swords are actually the same sword... Do you think Gen2 swords look authentic enough for the period or should i rather buy Windlass Sword of Reval (of course if it can fit into 12th century) ? And what about handling of Windlass and Gen2 blades? As much as I know Gen2 are more durable swords but they probably doesn't handle as well as Windlass?
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Mon 27 Aug, 2007 2:52 pm Post subject: Re: Windlass and Gen2 swords |
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| Luka Borscak wrote: | Hello everybody, I have a few questions which I would like you to answer me...
First, there is this sword - http://minishop.t-com.hr/replikart/ProductDet...mp;gid=38. It is dated to 1219 I would like to know could it also fit into 12 century (early or if not, at least the period of the Baldwin IV, Saladin and the third crusade) with this type of hilt, pommel and the blade.
Second, there are Generation 2 Norman, 12th century and the Third crusade sword. 12th century sword and the third crusade swords are actually the same sword... Do you think Gen2 swords look authentic enough for the period or should i rather buy Windlass Sword of Reval (of course if it can fit into 12th century) ? And what about handling of Windlass and Gen2 blades? As much as I know Gen2 are more durable swords but they probably doesn't handle as well as Windlass? |
You could have a look at this myArmoury review if you haven't seen it:
http://www.myArmoury.com/review_ll_12c.html
The general look of the Generation 2 swords is O.K. IF you are not too demanding as far as period authenticity.
The Dordogne sword by the same maker that I have is solidly made and the heat treat of the blade seems good.
Oh, your link didn't work on my computer so I can't comment on that sword if it's not the same I think it is.
With some re-wrapping of the grip one could hide the " modern " assembly that uses metal plates at each end of the grip: This being what looks like modern construction rather than period. I say hide because one could cover these plates with leather.
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Luka Borscak
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| Posted: Mon 27 Aug, 2007 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you for the review, I forgot to search there for the Gen2 swords...
Windlass sword I'm interested in is this one, I hope you can see it now.
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Mon 27 Aug, 2007 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Luka Borscak"]Thank you for the review, I forgot to search there for the Gen2 swords...
Windlass sword I'm interested in is this one, I hope you can see it now.
Yes I can see it and it looks good: I guess you have to decide how historical the sword has to be and what are your priorities.
The Generation 2 swords probably have more robust construction and a harder heat treat than the Windlass swords but the windlass look more period.
Here is the A & A 12th century sword that you can compare to the Generation 2 as they are close in type and intent but the
A & A is what a historically correct one should looks like: http://www.arms-n-armor.com/sword089.html
A review of the A & A sword by Russ Ellis: http://www.tritonworks.com/reviews?content=re...=aaa_12thC
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Luka Borscak
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| Posted: Tue 28 Aug, 2007 4:10 am Post subject: |
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Thank you very much. I will probably take windlass because in the review of Gen2 you posted is stated that it is to have for good one handed use and I'm looking for a single hander. I would be very grateful if you or anybody could tell me if there is an example 12th century sword with the cross style of that windlass i posted a picture of. Brazil nut pommel should fit into 12th century but i'm not sure about the cross...
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Luka Borscak
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| Posted: Wed 29 Aug, 2007 1:03 am Post subject: |
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Would it be possible for a 12th century crusader to have a late Viking sword like Ulfberht or this other sword? Maybe from his Norman ancestor who went on a First crusade with this sword and passed it on?
All this swords are available to me and I just have to decide which would fit best into time aproximately from first to third crusade...
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Harold R.
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| Posted: Wed 29 Aug, 2007 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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It is my understanding that since swords were expensive not many people had them. They were also supposedly very well taken care of and passed down through generations. IIRC, I read once that the large Scottish two handers were often rehilted centuries later into basket hilted swords and even dirks if they were broken.
It wasn't like you could just go down to the junkyard and pull a spring leaf off an old F-150 if you wanted a good peice of steel. 
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Luka Borscak
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| Posted: Wed 29 Aug, 2007 1:06 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you Harold!
The last question that remained unanswered: Could this first sword I posted fit into 12th century with this cross style, or is it 13th century onward style?
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Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Wed 29 Aug, 2007 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Luka Borscak wrote: | Thank you for the review, I forgot to search there for the Gen2 swords...
Windlass sword I'm interested in is this one, I hope you can see it now.
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I'm not sure I've ever seen a pommel like that combined with a guard like that on an historical sword. That style of guard seems a little late for that style of pommel.
ChadA
http://chadarnow.com/
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Tony Brass
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| Posted: Wed 29 Aug, 2007 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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Windlass swords are lighter, but they do not really handle better. In my limited experience Gen 2 blades actually handle better than Windlass. Gen 2 grips are ultra durable, and solid, and that does not only mean longevity, it translates into a good handling. The feeling of a solid grip gives one a sense of positive control. Windlass on the other hand, pays more attention to aesthetic detail. Where Gen 2 is a broad stroke rendition of a historical piece, Windlass often includes more thoughtful shape to its guard and pommels. Windlass however, suffers from that terrible affliction of lose grips, and guards - oof, I cannot stand it. (I've epoxied mine with decent results most of the time).
If I had to go into a real fight, it would be Gen 2 hands down every time. They work, even if they are not as pretty.
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Nathan Robinson
myArmoury Admin
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| Posted: Wed 29 Aug, 2007 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Tony Brass wrote: | | Windlass swords are lighter, but they do not really handle better. In my limited experience Gen 2 blades actually handle better than Windlass. |
I'm not sure it's as easy as making a wide-sweeping comment like that for companies with a large number of products in their line-up. My own experience with Windlass is that the weight of their swords varies greatly: some are lightweight, others are quite heavy. Some are within spec in terms of historical examples, others are quite a bit heaver. My impression of the Gen 2 swords that I've handled is that they are far too heavy.
Regarding handling: of the Gen 2 swords I've handled, I didn't feel that any of them handled like a comparable historic sword would handle. Many of the ones older than a couple years old suffered from very, very bad dynamic properties and, as mentioned above, were all far too heavy. Windlass, on the other hand, has offerings that range across the board. Some of their items have very good dynamics while others have extremely poor dynamics. I have noted significant variances of handling properties between various samples of the same sword model, in fact.
Mileage varies. It's all about the odds when it comes to swords in this price point. From my experience, the odds of getting an adequate sword from the Windlass catalog of items is greater than getting one from the Gen 2 catalog.
Having said that, each consumer must decide what is important to him based on his own needs of the product. I submit that Windlass and Gen 2 are aiming at different segments of the market and are addressing different consumer needs. It's quite likely that the Windlass model is much more compatible with my particular buying needs and that may very well be responsible for the above observations.
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Luka Borscak
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| Posted: Thu 30 Aug, 2007 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you all, I think I will buy the Windlass +ulfberht+ sword because it seems historicaly correct which is important to me and it is much lighter then Gen2 12th century sword and I am a small guy (162cm) looking for a sword that I will be able to use with one hand with a shield in the other for a longer period of time... I saw somewhere on this forum that the +ulfberht+ is a good balanced sword so I hope it will serve me well...
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Luka Borscak
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| Posted: Wed 05 Sep, 2007 3:56 am Post subject: |
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I went to the shop, tried some Windlass swords and Gen2 12th century sword. Gen2 was too heavy for me, I could use it effectively only with both hands. Windlass swords I handled were "Transitional viking sword", "Sword of Reval", "Orewin bridge sword", "Tristan sword" and "Ulfberht sword" and I bought the the "Ulfberht" because it was the best balanced sword of all I handled there. With 3lb it is the heaviest of them but a bit shorter and better balanced so you don't feel the weight too much. It is maybe a bit too flexible but it is a cutting sword so I don't mind it too much. It is an agile sword which I enjoy to handle and I'm looking forward to see how will it work at some test cutting...
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This is a standard topic