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Charlee Garvin
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 Posted: Fri 24 Aug, 2007 9:27 pm Post subject: Rondel Dagger |
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Hi everyone,
I need your recommendations,
I'm looking for a high quality, tough as nails, rondel dagger--a real icesicle in steel. I want the blade to be at least 12inches, but would prefer 16. I looked at Lutel's--which I like, but I can't get over the welded tangs. Cas/Iberia has some nice ones but I suspect mass production cheapness. Any suggestions? It needs to compliment an Albion Knecht and Meister rig.
Thank you,
Charlee
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Charlee Garvin
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| Posted: Fri 24 Aug, 2007 9:48 pm Post subject: Arms & Armor #110 |
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Just looked at the Arms & Armor #110---looks great but don't like the blond wood on the dagger in the myArmoury review.
Is that wood optional?
Charlee
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Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Sat 25 Aug, 2007 8:27 am Post subject: |
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For questions about wood choices for A&A's rondel dagger, you might want to ask A&A directly.  The stabilized light wood is the stock option, but they customize and make custom weapons. Check out their custom section for examples. I'm not sure a late 14th century dagger like theirs would go with your late 15th century-into the 16th century swords, though.
I'm not aware of CAS Iberia having any decent rondel daggers.
Arma Bohemia makes nice rondel daggers. See this review: http://www.myArmoury.com/review_ab_rondel.html They have many more on their site and do custom work as well.
Tod's Stuff makes nice rondel daggers. I love the 14th century rondel dagger he made for me. He even has a few on-hand right now (contact him for what's available: http://www.todsstuff.co.uk/0 Since the stuff is custom, you can get exactly what you want if what he has in stock doesn't work. He's a pleasure to work with and his delivery times are pretty good for this industry.
We have reviews of both Del Tin rondel daggers on our reviews page as well, as well as reviews of rondel daggers by other makers.
ChadA
http://chadarnow.com/
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Charlee Garvin
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| Posted: Sat 25 Aug, 2007 11:25 am Post subject: Rondel Dagger |
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Chad,
Thanks so much for the wealth of information.
Charlee
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Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Sat 25 Aug, 2007 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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Here are some examples of Tod's work.
First, my 14th century dagger:
 Attachment: 35.28 KB
Misc. rondels by Tod
Attachment: 70.02 KB
More rondels by Tod
ChadA
http://chadarnow.com/
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Charlee Garvin
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| Posted: Sat 25 Aug, 2007 2:39 pm Post subject: Very Very Cool |
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Chad,
I love that first brass handled example! That lanyard loop on the butt cap is so smart. Even the seam looks authentic and makes sense for rain to drain out when worn in the field. It’s very very beautiful and ancient looking yet utilitarian.
I’ve got to have one!
Thank you! You made my day!
Best Regards,
Charlee
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Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Sat 25 Aug, 2007 2:57 pm Post subject: Re: Very Very Cool |
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| Charlee Garvin wrote: | Chad,
I love that first brass handled example! That lanyard loop on the butt cap is so smart. Even the seam looks authentic and makes sense for rain to drain out when worn in the field. It’s very very beautiful and ancient looking yet utilitarian.
I’ve got to have one!
Thank you! You made my day!
Best Regards,
Charlee |
Thanks! Tod had the grip cast in bronze. The original's grip is also made of bronze. The thought is that the loop is probably more likely to be used to connect the dagger to the breastplate via a chain. It's a 14th century thing.
In regards to the seam and draining, I'm not sure what you mean. 
The original dagger is picture in our Rondel Dagger Spotlight.
ChadA
http://chadarnow.com/
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Charlee Garvin
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| Posted: Sat 25 Aug, 2007 3:39 pm Post subject: Seam drain |
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Well,
Just looking at the dagger---my mind reflects back to my Marine Corps weapons handling in the field. Thinking from a practical stand point of having to lug these things in the rain, mud, snow---they have to be able to shed the elements. In regards to this Rondel, it seems the rain would run down the blade and fill the handle cavity of brass around the blade tang. If there were no relief seam for drainage---dry time would slow down inside thus incurring rust. Whether the bladesmith thought of this or it being just a design anomaly, I don't know. But this was what I meant. If it is a true replica of a historical piece--then there may be some relevance.
Charlee
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Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Sat 25 Aug, 2007 4:27 pm Post subject: Re: Seam drain |
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| Charlee Garvin wrote: | Well,
Just looking at the dagger---my mind reflects back to my Marine Corps weapons handling in the field. Thinking from a practical stand point of having to lug these things in the rain, mud, snow---they have to be able to shed the elements. In regards to this Rondel, it seems the rain would run down the blade and fill the handle cavity of brass around the blade tang. If there were no relief seam for drainage---dry time would slow down inside thus incurring rust. Whether the bladesmith thought of this or it being just a design anomaly, I don't know. But this was what I meant. If it is a true replica of a historical piece--then there may be some relevance.
Charlee |
There's no seam, but I may be misunderstanding your meaning. Where is the seam you're talking about? The blade has a fuller (groove), but it's not for drainage.
As for moisture getting under the grip I'm sure it happened. But things like cutler's pitch and the tight fit given by a competent maker would limit that. Rust won't be a huge issue because (from what I understand) the metal will indeed oxidize but the layer of oxidization will at some point actually become protective and prevent further oxidization. After all, surface treatments like russeting (and blueing to a degree) oxidize the outer layer of the metal, acting as protection. Also, if rust were to stay active, wouldn't it take a long time to rust straight through a 1/4 inch of steel?
A lot is made about weapons where you can dismount them and clean the tang. Our ancestors didn't make this a priority during the middle ages, and they actually went campaigning with their stuff. I'm sure moisture got underneath grips, but there are ways to limit that and I don't think that alone would cause the tang to rust through very quickly.
ChadA
http://chadarnow.com/
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Merv Cannon
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Charlee Garvin
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| Posted: Sat 25 Aug, 2007 6:45 pm Post subject: Pitch/Seam |
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Merv,
Great link! Read it all---I'm always looking for ways to preserve my weapons in storage.
Thank you!
Chad,
I guess I misinterpreted the photo. It looks like there is a joined seam running along the brass handle. But on closer inspection, I now see now it's merely an indented ridge. Anyway, it led to an interesting aside.
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Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Sat 25 Aug, 2007 6:48 pm Post subject: Re: Pitch/Seam |
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| Charlee Garvin wrote: |
Chad,
I guess I misinterpreted the photo. It looks like there is a joined seam running along the brass handle. But on closer inspection, I now see now it's merely an indented ridge. Anyway, it led to an interesting aside. |
Ah, I see. The handle is indeed solid bronze (not brass). It is faceted and there is a bit of a border on each face.
The original is made of several pieces of bronze sheet, but how the pieces fit together is unclear. Solid bronze was a cheaper option, too.
ChadA
http://chadarnow.com/
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Michal Plezia
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Sun 26 Aug, 2007 6:00 am Post subject: |
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Tod's rondels look great.What about their durability and sharpness?
www.elchon.com
Polish Guild of Knifemakers
The sword is a weapon for killing, the art of the sword is the art of killing. No matter what fancy words you use or what titles you put to
it that is the only truth.
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Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Sun 26 Aug, 2007 7:52 am Post subject: |
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| Michal Plezia wrote: | | Tod's rondels look great.What about their durability and sharpness? |
I have two of his daggers (the rondel above and a Scottish dirk) and they are both very sharp. He uses good steel and the temper appears sound. I have no worries about the durability of construction. I believe he often uses epoxy around the tang in addition to a tight fit and peened tangs to ensure the assembly never loosens.
ChadA
http://chadarnow.com/
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This is a standard topic