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S. Mighton
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 Posted: Fri 24 Aug, 2007 4:19 pm Post subject: Cuirbouilli/hardened leather armour |
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Couple noob question I guess, but people on this forum seem extremely knowledgeable and helpful so I'll ask:
To what extent was hardened leather/cuirbouilli armour used in the 14th century, and in what sort of configurations was it employed (i.e. over gambeson, by itselft, under mail, as a cheap alternative to plate/splinted leather etc.) ? How effective was it? How widely available/expensive was it compared with other contemporary types of armour?
Information/links/suggested readings with regards to this topic would be greatly appreciated.
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Steven H
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| Posted: Sat 25 Aug, 2007 9:53 am Post subject: Re: Cuirbouilli/hardened leather armour |
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| S. Mighton wrote: | Couple noob question I guess, but people on this forum seem extremely knowledgeable and helpful so I'll ask:
To what extent was hardened leather/cuirbouilli armour used in the 14th century, and in what sort of configurations was it employed (i.e. over gambeson, by itselft, under mail, as a cheap alternative to plate/splinted leather etc.) ? How effective was it? How widely available/expensive was it compared with other contemporary types of armour?
Information/links/suggested readings with regards to this topic would be greatly appreciated. |
Essentially the only use of hardened leather in battle armour was over mail as an alternative to plate. The hardened leather plate will spread an impact and the mail guarantees the cut-proof aspect. However this was never a common usage, steel plate was immediately more common than leather plate ever was.
I know of no examples of hardened leather being used over a gambeson, by itself or under mail.
It is hard to know it's cost given how uncommon it was and how few records survive. But it was probably only a little cheaper than steel. Widespread ranching didn't start until later so leather would be relatively less available. One of the primary causes of the move to plate armour would seem to be the increase in plate steel manufacture which reduced the cost of plate armour.
Hardened leather armour seems to have been more common in tournament gear in this era as described in King Rene of Anjou's tournament book.
The most recent scholarship on hardening leather suggests that for armour purposes the primary means of making cuir boulli was to soak it in a glue solution and then wet form and bake it. Just water and wax hardening seem to be used for civilian purposes but not as armour.
-Steven
Kunstbruder - Boston area Historical Combat Study
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Lafayette C Curtis
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| Posted: Fri 31 Aug, 2007 6:33 am Post subject: Re: Cuirbouilli/hardened leather armour |
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| Steven H wrote: | Essentially the only use of hardened leather in battle armour was over mail as an alternative to plate. The hardened leather plate will spread an impact and the mail guarantees the cut-proof aspect. However this was never a common usage, steel plate was immediately more common than leather plate ever was.
I know of no examples of hardened leather being used over a gambeson, by itself or under mail. |
Sources, please? I'm not doubting this statement, only that I'm curious about where I may be able to find reliable further reading on this subject.
| Quote: | | The most recent scholarship on hardening leather suggests that for armour purposes the primary means of making cuir boulli was to soak it in a glue solution and then wet form and bake it. Just water and wax hardening seem to be used for civilian purposes but not as armour. |
Again, sources? This is a very interesting subject, and you know the consequences for people who try to obstruct the cat's curiosity...
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