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Christian Fletcher
Industry Professional
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 Posted: Wed 27 Jun, 2007 5:42 pm Post subject: Teaser photos for new product line |
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Angus Trim and I have been working on prototypes for a new line of swords to be manufactured and distributed by Valiant Armoury. Here's a sneak peek at the first two models:
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Christian Fletcher
www.christianfletcher.com
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Jared Smith
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| Posted: Wed 27 Jun, 2007 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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The second or lower photo has my attention! The combination (of scabbard and sword) are gorgeous.
I have little doubt you will find it challenging to fulfill the orders. I am interested in an advanced order. Send private email if neccessary. Congratulations!
Absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence!
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Angus Trim
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| Posted: Wed 27 Jun, 2007 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Jared Smith wrote: | The second or lower photo has my attention! The combination (of scabbard and sword) are gorgeous.
I have little doubt you will find it challenging to fulfill the orders. I am interested in an advanced order. Send private email if neccessary. Congratulations! |
Hi Jared
These are prototypes for Valiant Arms.......... These two pieces are going to be sent to China, with the intent of having sword/scabbard sets back in time for Christmas..........
Hand forged 1075 blades, handmade handle and scabbard, cast guard and pommel..........
Aimed for price point at the moment, $500USD..........
swords are fun
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John Wehr
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| Posted: Wed 27 Jun, 2007 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Angus Trim wrote: | | Jared Smith wrote: | The second or lower photo has my attention! The combination (of scabbard and sword) are gorgeous.
I have little doubt you will find it challenging to fulfill the orders. I am interested in an advanced order. Send private email if neccessary. Congratulations! |
Hi Jared
These are prototypes for Valiant Arms.......... These two pieces are going to be sent to China, with the intent of having sword/scabbard sets back in time for Christmas..........
Hand forged 1075 blades, handmade handle and scabbard, cast guard and pommel..........
Aimed for price point at the moment, $500USD.......... |
Nice, but those wouldn't be produced by either you or Christian, right? Cause for that amount.. wow. If these look this good, I can't wait to see mine from you Gus.
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Angus Trim
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| Posted: Wed 27 Jun, 2007 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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Hi John
NO, just the design here....... those will be produced in China..........
swords are fun
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Russ Ellis
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Wed 27 Jun, 2007 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Angus Trim wrote: | Hi John
NO, just the design here....... those will be produced in China.......... |
Now that I didn't know. Interesting. I'm curious, how will you prevent your designs from being replicated and sold through a variety of sources like the cheap katana that are now flooding the market?
TRITONWORKS Custom Scabbards
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Angus Trim
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| Posted: Wed 27 Jun, 2007 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Russ Ellis wrote: | | Angus Trim wrote: | Hi John
NO, just the design here....... those will be produced in China.......... |
Now that I didn't know. Interesting. I'm curious, how will you prevent your designs from being replicated and sold through a variety of sources like the cheap katana that are now flooding the market? |
Hi Russ
Good question......but then I don't keep up with the cheap kat market. Two dimensional images have been copied from one swordmaker to another for years....... but if we go back seven years, did a WS sword handle like a Del Tin? Today, WS is much improved, but........
When we get to the Chinese, you have a few of these forges that can do real nice work........ There's even a couple of them that have figured out that a kat blade should have 20 to 30% distal taper........... However, there's those that still haven't figured that out.........
I suspect that'll be the difference..........
I expect the copies to handle pretty good. I'd be surprised if a copy from a photo would handle or perform as well..........
swords are fun
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Lancelot Chan
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Wed 27 Jun, 2007 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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Hmmm.... for many years I've refrained from sending those China sword factories some of my European sword purchases as prototype for copy, despite their request. Although I could get very affordable European swords that way and my local customers would be happy. I always try to honor the US makers by purchasing from them directly and not leaking out their trade secrets to the copycats.
So now it seems the makers did it themselves.  Hopefully there'll be quality European swords at the low price point that is comparable to the cheap katana I can get. LOL.
Ancient Combat Association —http://www.acahk.org
Realistic Sparring Weapons — http://www.rsw.com.hk
Nightstalkers — http://www.nightstalkers.com.hk
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Jeremiah Swanger
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| Posted: Thu 28 Jun, 2007 1:44 am Post subject: |
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| Lancelot Chan wrote: | | Hopefully there'll be quality European swords at the low price point that is comparable to the cheap katana I can get. LOL. |
A concept long overdue. I really hope this venture sees it to fruition.
"Rhaegar fought nobly.
Rhaegar fought valiantly.
Rhaegar fought honorably.
And Rhaegar died."
- G.R.R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire
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David Sutton
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| Posted: Thu 28 Jun, 2007 4:58 am Post subject: |
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Am I understanding correctly; the swords and scabbards will be sold together as a set?!!
For a price point of about $500(£250 approx) that would be a great product. for once a decent and historically accurate scabbard sold with a production sword, very, very cool! 
'Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all'
'To teach superstitions as truth is a most terrible thing'
Hypatia of Alexandria, c400AD
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Angus Trim
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| Posted: Thu 28 Jun, 2007 6:34 am Post subject: |
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| Lancelot Chan wrote: | Hmmm.... for many years I've refrained from sending those China sword factories some of my European sword purchases as prototype for copy, despite their request. Although I could get very affordable European swords that way and my local customers would be happy. I always try to honor the US makers by purchasing from them directly and not leaking out their trade secrets to the copycats.
So now it seems the makers did it themselves. Hopefully there'll be quality European swords at the low price point that is comparable to the cheap katana I can get. LOL. |
The "makers' have been commissioned to design and make prototypes to be sent to a forge, to be produced there........
There's already four of the "Signature Line" {the one's CF put the photo up on}, and CF has a few more concept drawings......
There's also going to be a tactical line.........
And there's going to be a basic lineup for the recreational cutter............
swords are fun
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Russ Ellis
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Thu 28 Jun, 2007 6:39 am Post subject: |
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| Angus Trim wrote: |
Hi Russ
Good question......but then I don't keep up with the cheap kat market. Two dimensional images have been copied from one swordmaker to another for years....... but if we go back seven years, did a WS sword handle like a Del Tin? Today, WS is much improved, but........
When we get to the Chinese, you have a few of these forges that can do real nice work........ There's even a couple of them that have figured out that a kat blade should have 20 to 30% distal taper........... However, there's those that still haven't figured that out.........
I suspect that'll be the difference..........
I expect the copies to handle pretty good. I'd be surprised if a copy from a photo would handle or perform as well.......... |
That's sort of what I was getting at. With your prototypes in hand they won't have to resort to using photos, in fact I've heard of several instances in the knife world where the factory doing the manufacturing itself just starts producing the swords in production runs that have nothing to do with the licensing company, repackaging them in a different wrapper and underselling the person who initially started the venture. With the lax or unenforced copyright laws in China whoever is holding the license has little recourse.
I know you and Christian are businessmen (and the Valiant Arms folks too) and I'm sure you have thought of such things, I would just hate to see the current flood of cheap mass produced chitanas augmented with a flood of cheap mass produced chitrims coming from sources that our outside your oversight and dedication to quality.
TRITONWORKS Custom Scabbards
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Angus Trim
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| Posted: Thu 28 Jun, 2007 8:36 am Post subject: |
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| Russ Ellis wrote: | | Angus Trim wrote: |
Hi Russ
Good question......but then I don't keep up with the cheap kat market. Two dimensional images have been copied from one swordmaker to another for years....... but if we go back seven years, did a WS sword handle like a Del Tin? Today, WS is much improved, but........
When we get to the Chinese, you have a few of these forges that can do real nice work........ There's even a couple of them that have figured out that a kat blade should have 20 to 30% distal taper........... However, there's those that still haven't figured that out.........
I suspect that'll be the difference..........
I expect the copies to handle pretty good. I'd be surprised if a copy from a photo would handle or perform as well.......... |
That's sort of what I was getting at. With your prototypes in hand they won't have to resort to using photos, in fact I've heard of several instances in the knife world where the factory doing the manufacturing itself just starts producing the swords in production runs that have nothing to do with the licensing company, repackaging them in a different wrapper and underselling the person who initially started the venture. With the lax or unenforced copyright laws in China whoever is holding the license has little recourse.
I know you and Christian are businessmen (and the Valiant Arms folks too) and I'm sure you have thought of such things, I would just hate to see the current flood of cheap mass produced chitanas augmented with a flood of cheap mass produced chitrims coming from sources that our outside your oversight and dedication to quality. |
Hi Russ
I'm not sure how Christian's thread of two new models became a discussion on Chinese piracy, but I'm not that concerned..........
The sword market is not the knife market......... cheap copies would likely be wallhangers, not swords.........
If you look at the SBG at all, you'll find an importer who is making an effort to change from the "battle ready", to the more traditional, or historical accurate. He's having quite a learning curve, in heat treat, edge geometry, and blade geometry. In going elsewhere to have stuff made, its almost imperative, in something like a real sword, to find someone that already has similar experience. And been successful at it...........
If you're all that familiar with Christian Fletcher's handiwork, then you'll know that its labor intensive, and that the workmanship is good........ excellent in fact. I expect the licensed copy to be good too, and where I don't expect it to be the same as CF's work, I expect it to be close enough to be reminiscent of the old "carbon copy". Copying a copy means that you're getting further away from the original, and cheaper actually will mean cheaper.........
On the functional aspect, you have the same thing. But its more important here to find someone who already has made functional swords, and already has an idea what dynamic balance is, what heat treat is all about, has a clue about blade geometry, and the same with edge geometry...............
A cheap copy of a copy here probably means no distal taper {two dimensional copy}, or the wrong character of distal taper {handling and harmonic problems}, heat treat problems, edge geometry problems, etc.............
Then there's the marketing.............. The licensed copies will be available in a lot of mall stores............. that will likely make it somewhat difficult {though not impossible} for a cheap dangerous copy to pop up in mall stores.
Then there's the internet.......... I suspect that it'll be pretty easy to point out where cheap, unlicensed, and unsafe copies are being marketed from.......
Copying may happen, but I don't see it as a big problem. Not for what we're doing........
I hate to use anyone else' name in this, but it'd be like comparing either these or the cheap copies to an Albion. Not really in the same ballpark, they'll appeal to different segments of the market.
The market is saturated. the market is evolving and changing. But its also fragmented and has all kinds of niches and sub-niches.........What appeals to one segment, won't necessarily appeal to another...........
swords are fun
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Trent Stevens
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| Posted: Thu 28 Jun, 2007 10:47 am Post subject: Hi! |
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Hi Mr Trim!
these prototypes will work great i think. but what will be the quality difference between these reproduction blades and the ones that you and Christian make?
Trenty!
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Angus Trim
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| Posted: Thu 28 Jun, 2007 11:17 am Post subject: Re: Hi! |
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| Trent Stevens wrote: | Hi Mr Trim!
these prototypes will work great i think. but what will be the quality difference between these reproduction blades and the ones that you and Christian make? |
Hi Trent
{just Gus please}.......
I'm sure there will be a quality difference ........ but then, if you look at that XIIa, with scabbard........ from CF that could be a $1200 to $1500 package...............
Based on that as a baseline, I expect this new Valiant Arms "Signature Line" to be great value for the money..........
swords are fun
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Bryce Felperin
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| Posted: Thu 28 Jun, 2007 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Jared Smith wrote: | The second or lower photo has my attention! The combination (of scabbard and sword) are gorgeous.
I have little doubt you will find it challenging to fulfill the orders. I am interested in an advanced order. Send private email if neccessary. Congratulations! |
I can attest, from my own point of view as one of Christian's most happy customers, that the scabbard and belt in the second picture are of the best quality and workmanship and fit. I have the same rig myself that I have acquired from him recently!
Oh, and the sword looks great too! ;-)
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Jean Henri Chandler
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| Posted: Thu 28 Jun, 2007 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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These look fantastic. What price range are the manufactured ones going to be sold at? (I'm sorry if I missed this somehow in the thread)
J
Books and games on Medieval Europe Codex Integrum
Codex Guide to the Medieval Baltic Now available in print
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Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Thu 28 Jun, 2007 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Jean Henri Chandler wrote: | These look fantastic. What price range are the manufactured ones going to be sold at? (I'm sorry if I missed this somehow in the thread)
J |
See:
| Angus Trim wrote: | Hand forged 1075 blades, handmade handle and scabbard, cast guard and pommel..........
Aimed for price point at the moment, $500USD.......... |
ChadA
http://chadarnow.com/
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Sonny Suttles
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Thu 28 Jun, 2007 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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Hello all,
I am sure many of you will have many, many more questions regarding what Valiant Armoury has in store for our "Signature Collection" featuring Christian Fletcher designs built on Gus Trim Blade patterns as well as our "Sparring and Tactical line" designed by Gus Trim. I can assure you first and foremost we at Valiant Armoury will strive to deliver a "great value for price" product that Christian and Gus will be proud to put their names on as well as the end user will be proud to own. We are working on a press release that will probably answer most of your questions concerning these new lines, but fill free to quiz Christian, Gus or myself will any questions you might have now.
Thanks,
Sonny Suttles
President
Valiant Armoury Swords
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Shawn Henthorn
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| Posted: Thu 28 Jun, 2007 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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I don't know about the rest of you but I am freaking stoked! It is a long overdue concept and I for one cant wait!
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