[Tim W.]

I am a new member of myArmoury.com. A family member recently entrusted me with a model 1860 Cavalry Saber and asked me to restore it for her in some fashion. It is complete but the scabbard has been painted gray. Should I remove the gray paint or will that detract from the piece? Also should I polish the brass on the saber itself? Any guidance would be appreciated as I am a total novice in this area.
thanks
Tim W.

[William Goodwin]

'ello & welcome.


One method would be to strip the grey paint from the scabbard and leave the brass hilt as it is (unless it was completely covered in the greenish tarnish). If the blade is in good shaped (no active rust or major pitting) , a gentle wipe down with a light oil, should put you good to go.

Any markings on the blade close to the guard?

[Tim W.]

the blade is marked with Mansfield & Lamb, Forestdale, RI inside an oval and US and CEW on the other side

[Sean Flynt]

I own a Mansfield & Lamb Model 1860.

Read this:

http://www.myArmoury.com/feature_lost_1860sab.html

If you do anything at all, just remove the paint from the scabbard. If it were mine, I'd probably apply a small dab of Citrus Strip to the most out-of-sight spot on the scabbard, let it sit for a few minutes, then try to just peel the paint off with a toothpick. If that works, proceed to the next-most out-of-sight place, etc.

Under no circumstances should you use any abrasives, metal brushes or power tools. Anything you do to the (probably dark) underlying finish--even just buffing it--will damage the patina and thus the financial and historical value. I don't even wax my Model 1860, but if you want to do that you should invest in a jar of Renaissance Wax and follow directions for use. It won't harm the finish.

Please don't do anything at all to the underlying finish of the scabbard or to the finish of the blade or hilt. Don't "clean". Don't polish. Don't "fix" or remove torn leather or broken wires. If you want a shiny Model 1860, buy a reproduction for $80, sell the antique to somebody who values its full history and buy yourself something very nice from A&A with the cash. If you do anything to the blade or hilt, the sword's value will drop like a stone and you'll destroy any sense of its history. At that point it won't be much more interesting than the $80 repro. Think like a museum curator.

Before you remove the paint on the scabbard you should ask around and make sure that isn't an original military finish. I don't think it would be original to the Civil War, but the Model 1860 served for decades after the war and there might be some official "grey paint" variant out there. Imagine how you'll feel years from now when you're watching Antiques Roadshow and hear about the rare "grey scabbard" Model 1860s now worth a billion dollars in "untouched" condition.

Above all, remember that you've been entrusted not only with the sword itself, but also with its history.

[Tim W.]

Sean
thanks for the reply- I have not done any cleaning or polishing thus far. The blade is in very fine condition and is shiny. The hilt is brown and you are not recommending that I polish this brass? As for the gray paint- I will await further responses as you make an interesting point about some scabbards being "officially" being painted at some point. Further history reveals that the saber came from a "southern" branch of the family (Georgia) and was brought north in the 1930s. Does anyone else know of a painted scabbard?

[Sean Flynt]

[Adam Simmonds]

[John Cooksey]

Adam, I think both you and Sean have very valid perspectives. As an archaeological anthropologist (anthropological archaeologist), I often find myself of two minds about antique "anythings". The bigger part of my psyche, that part that sees antiques, such as weapons, as useful and desirable things (even heirlooms) tells me to use that "old thing" for any purpose that I see fit. The smaller part, the mumbling antiquarian, says "don't fuss with it, it's important the way it is".

Of course, some museum conservationists do "restore" artifacts, such as swords, in some cases. In Japan, at least, there is a long tradition of keeping rather ancient artifacts in good repair and even updating them to fit new tastes, with little or no value lost due to the changes. Indeed, sometimes a fresh polish will make a sword much more valuable, as it reveals previously unseen details indicative of period, school, and maker.

On the other hand, in today's market, an "original condition" Civil War saber is worth a heck of a lot more than a reconditioned one, because of that intangible flavour of history (real or perceived). Our society is civil-war crazy, and I would be loathe to do any thing that might (further) detract from the very real economic value of my antique.

[Steve Grisetti]

I suggest that you also read these articles:
At SwordForum.com: Conserving Antique Swords, by Mark McMorrow.
At Lion Gate Arms & Armour: The Collecting, Cleaning and Preservation of Edged Weapons, by John R. Harvey.

[Sean Flynt]

I should clarify--I'm not opposed to professional-quality conservation or even, in extreme cases, restoration. But given the choice between somebody "learning on the job" or just leaving things as-is, I lean strongly toward the latter.