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Toni R.
Location: Kuopio, Finland Joined: 17 Mar 2006
Posts: 39
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 Posted: Wed 11 Apr, 2007 4:14 am Post subject: New spatha |
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Greetings, fellow forumites.
Itīs been a while since Iīve posted anything on this site...So, hereīs something to chew on. Last spring I gratuated from my school, and since then I havenīt been able to put on much of an effort to sword making. Last week I finally decided to give a try.
I still had some leafsprings to start working with, and I thought that a spatha style of sword is something that I donīt own yet. Working conditions where a bit rustic, and I did most of the work with angle grinder(well,all of the metal work infact).
While grinding the blade, the leafspring started to go back to its original form because of the heat generated by the grinding. I thought for a while wether to use gas torch, or build up some kind of forge to heat and straighten the blade.
I decided to go with the forge. Weather was starting to get bad, and since I was working outdoors, I had to build some kind of wind cover. Of course it started to snow in addition. I built a forge-kind-of-object from bricks, and loaded it with coal. I managed to heat the blade enough to remove the tensions and forge the blade straight.
I didnīt do any more heat treatment, due to the lack of proper conditions. After all, the sword wasnīt going to get handling wich it wouldnīt bear.
I grinded the blade clean, and started to work with the handle. For the cross guard and pommel I used a splitted brass cylinder. Handle is made out of birch tree, and leather. At the school workshop I was used to work with milling tools to make fittings for cross guard and pommel. It was somewhat of a challenge to get them done cleanly with a dull hand drill and a file.
Result wasnīt too bad after all. Finally after two days of work, the sword was more or less finished. It came out in sort of a celtic-looking outfit, wich I thought was quite nice.
For the scabbard I used plywood and pinetree, and covered the whole thing with leather. The suspension of the scabbard is bit of a modification. Itīs made with one leather strap that goes around the scabbard in two places, and itīs connected from the backside. I thought that I would make a suspension piece out of brass and tie it on itīs place to make it match the historical pieces, but since this seems to work just fine, it can wait.
This spatha isnīt propably historically accurate, but that was not the meaning after all. I did do some research for the proportions and basic characteristics, so I think it can be recognised as a spatha. For me this piece of work was like a therapy after almost a year of doing no metalwork. It gave a spark that will hopefully light the fire to learn the discipline of steel soon again.
There are on-progress pictures, and some pictures of the finished piece.
Some measurements:
OA length: 72 cm
blade length: 60 cm
blade width at the cross guard: 4 cm
blade width at the point: 3,5 cm
blade thickness at the CG: 0,85 cm
blade thickness at the point: 0,5cm
cross guard and pommel width: 5,5 cm
grip length: 8,5 cm
weight: 1,025 kg
The blade could have some more distal tapering, and it could be thinner at the cross guard, but I didnīt have the patience to do any more grinding that was necessary.It will do just fine(although it could be a bit lighter)
Oh, I did do some cutting with milk cartons, and the spatha did its job just fine The blade is still definitely hard enough to do cutting, even with no heat tratment.
Hope you like it. Any comments are welcome.
(and sorry about the poor resolution in some pictures)
 Attachment: 95.87 KB
grinding [ Download ]
Attachment: 97.46 KB
blade roughly shaped [ Download ]
Attachment: 84.33 KB
leafspring trying to maintain its original form [ Download ]
Attachment: 85.49 KB
sort of a forge [ Download ]
Attachment: 96.58 KB
heating the blade [ Download ]
Attachment: 93.4 KB
straightened blade [ Download ]
Attachment: 81.55 KB
constructing the handle [ Download ]
Attachment: 89.67 KB
finished piece [ Download ]
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Toni R.
Location: Kuopio, Finland Joined: 17 Mar 2006
Posts: 39
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| Posted: Wed 11 Apr, 2007 4:26 am Post subject: some more pictures |
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Few more pictures of the finished sword...also with scabbard.
Attachment: 83.97 KB
close-up picture of the handle [ Download ]
Attachment: 74.19 KB
close-up with scabbard [ Download ]
Attachment: 90.83 KB
sword in the scabbard [ Download ]
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David Martin
Location: Southeastern Pennsylvania Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 165
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| Posted: Wed 11 Apr, 2007 4:58 am Post subject: |
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You have a beautiful sword (and scabbard) there. Congratulations on doing such a fine job! I'm looking forward to seeing the results of your next project.
"When war-gods meet to match their might,
who can tell the bravest born?
Many a hero never made a hole
in another man's breast."
- Sigurd, The Lay of Fafnir
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Barrett Hiebert
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| Posted: Fri 13 Apr, 2007 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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Greetings,
Just wanted to say beautfiul looking sword! Hoo-rah! Cheers!
Best regards,
Barrett Michael Hiebert
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Michael Douglas
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| Posted: Tue 17 Apr, 2007 10:28 am Post subject: |
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The blade looks like a nice spatha blade.
The handle is pants.
What were you thinking?
Go look at a REAL one,
then do it again, properly.
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Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Tue 17 Apr, 2007 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Michael Douglas wrote: | The blade looks like a nice spatha blade.
The handle is pants.
What were you thinking?
Go look at a REAL one,
then do it again, properly. |
Michael,
This kind of commentary is unwelcome and downright rude. We encourage people to offer constructive criticism, but ask that it be done without this kind of unbridled rudeness.
ChadA
http://chadarnow.com/
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Toni R.
Location: Kuopio, Finland Joined: 17 Mar 2006
Posts: 39
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| Posted: Tue 17 Apr, 2007 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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oookay... 
One shouldn't take these things too seriously...and for the record, this was not ment to be an accurate copy of an historical sword,but only a creation of my own mind(with a hint of spatha)...so no harm done. Thanks for the constructive criticism anyway;)
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Gabriele C.
Location: Roma,Italia Joined: 09 Apr 2007
Posts: 38
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| Posted: Tue 17 Apr, 2007 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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I think is a good work. It's half way between a fantasy spatha and a real one but i like it. Your skills as a smith can only improve. The snowy location is wonderful, i hate the always-hot temperature here in Roma, the last time snowed was he 1986! Good luck for your next opera.
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Nick Winley
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| Posted: Tue 17 Apr, 2007 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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For my two cents I think it looks excellent.
I also love your bearded axe and warhammer. I'm currently trying to source an old axe head and some square stock steel so I can steal, I mean emulate, your ideas.
Nick.
"The Riddle of Steel. Yes! You know what it is, don't you boy."
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Joel Chesser
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| Posted: Tue 17 Apr, 2007 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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I too am impressed, nicely done!
..." The person who dosen't have a sword should sell his coat and buy one."
- Luke 22:36
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Shawn Shaw
Location: Boston, MA USA Joined: 07 Jan 2006
Posts: 115
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| Posted: Wed 18 Apr, 2007 5:32 am Post subject: |
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Whether it's historically acurate or not, I think it looks quite nice. :-)
Besides, there was a lot of exchange in sword types between Roman and Celtic cultures. Maybe some Briton smith got hold of a broken spatha and slapped a more stylish hilt on it at some point in history...
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Shawn Shaw
Location: Boston, MA USA Joined: 07 Jan 2006
Posts: 115
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| Posted: Wed 18 Apr, 2007 7:22 am Post subject: |
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| Michael Douglas wrote: | The blade looks like a nice spatha blade.
The handle is pants.
What were you thinking?
Go look at a REAL one,
then do it again, properly. |
Do you have any references you could point us to?
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Jack Yang
Location: maryland Joined: 24 Mar 2007
Posts: 38
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| Posted: Wed 18 Apr, 2007 9:52 am Post subject: |
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Nicely done man =D I like how you did the pomel.
and is that a section of a rail track you are using for an anvil??
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Toni R.
Location: Kuopio, Finland Joined: 17 Mar 2006
Posts: 39
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| Posted: Wed 18 Apr, 2007 11:34 am Post subject: |
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| Jack Yang wrote: | Nicely done man =D I like how you did the pomel.
and is that a section of a rail track you are using for an anvil?? |
Thanks. Yes that thing of an anvil is a piece of railroad. It does the job, but if I'll use it again, I'll propably bolt it on a piece of log so that it woun't bounce like a rabbit when I hit. Fortunately I didn't have to do a lot of hammering with this piece...only straightened the blade.
And then a few words...It's nice to see that you people know your business with swords. I give much value to your comments, because you propably have dealed with these things longer than me. But since I'm not a historical re-enactor nor a professional bladesmith, I don't see any point in "re-inventing the wheel". I too prefer swords with some historical background ,but since I'm an industrial designer by my profession, I like to make new innovations and try alternative methods with my works. All of the swords and stuff I've made so far are somehow history related, but not precise copies. I believe that most people are able to make copies of historical swords, but it takes a bit more to put your own effort to the design.
Let's say that a bladesmith from 11th century jumps into a time machine and ends up to Albion Armorers workshop(for example). Would he appreciate the fact that they make their swords in the same way that almost 1000 years ago? Or would he say: What the hell are you guys doing?! You have all this modern equipment and hundreds of years of knoledge, and you end up with this same stuff!!!
Some thoughts to think about  Hope no-one got offended, that was not the meaning
Let's continue the humble learning of the discipline of the steel.
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Etienne Hamel
Location: Granby (QC) canada Joined: 09 Sep 2006
Posts: 443
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| Posted: Mon 30 Apr, 2007 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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Is the tang's wielded?
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M. Eversberg II
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| Posted: Mon 30 Apr, 2007 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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Looks nice. Might be the pic, but the handle looks somewhat chunky. Could also be you have larger hands than I do.
M.
This space for rent or lease.
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Greyson Brown
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| Posted: Tue 01 May, 2007 4:40 am Post subject: Re: New spatha |
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| Toni R. wrote: | | I built a forge-kind-of-object from bricks, and loaded it with coal. |
I haven't personally seen pictures, but I'm told that smiths in Africa can do quite a bit with even simpler forges. And some of the "forge-kind-of-object[s]" I've seen can be even more rudimentary (like an old wheel lined with clay or fire brick (it works, but it's not pretty)).
A friend of mine likes to compare blacksmithing to computer programing (Nathan, or some other computer savy soul, may jump in here and prove him/me wrong, but the point is still valid); there may be more elegant ways to accomplish the task, but as long as it does what you want, its right.
| Quote: | | I didnīt do any more heat treatment, due to the lack of proper conditions. After all, the sword wasnīt going to get handling wich it wouldnīt bear. |
I have a large dagger that I made froma leaf spring, and I can't remeber if I did any heat treating or not. If I did, I erred on the soft side, and it is still pretty tough. I think your spatha (since it is made from similar matterial) can probably hold up to a lifetime of milk carton cutting.
| Quote: | | I grinded the blade clean, and started to work with the handle. |
I have to admit that, when I first saw the picture of the grip before it was shaped, I was worried that it would be overly thick. You did a good job of trimming it done. It might still be too thick for my hands, but I'm a relatively small guy, and it wasn;t made for me in the first place  .
| Quote: | | Result wasnīt too bad after all. Finally after two days of work, the sword was more or less finished. It came out in sort of a celtic-looking outfit, wich I thought was quite nice. |
It may not be truly historical, but you never claimed that, and there are worse looking things on the market that do claim to be historical. I can simpathise with the tendancy to rush projects because you want them doen or to think badly of your own work becasue you know the headaches it gave you. Don't let that get you down. You've done a nice job on this piece, and you have also indicated that you uderstand where ther is room for inprovement.
| Quote: | | For me this piece of work was like a therapy after almost a year of doing no metalwork. It gave a spark that will hopefully light the fire to learn the discipline of steel soon again. |
It's been four years since I've done any metal work/ blacksmithing to speak of, so I understand where you are coming from. I intend to make some buckles, chapes, and lockets for various scabbard projects, and that will probably be enough for now. Making a sword is a rather impressive way to "warm up."
| Quote: | | The blade could have some more distal tapering, and it could be thinner at the cross guard, but I didnīt have the patience to do any more grinding that was necessary.It will do just fine(although it could be a bit lighter) |
Again, I've been there, and understand fully. The important part is that you understand what it is that you need to do in order to make a better piece next time.
| Quote: | | Thanks. Yes that thing of an anvil is a piece of railroad. It does the job, but if I'll use it again, I'll propably bolt it on a piece of log so that it woun't bounce like a rabbit when I hit. Fortunately I didn't have to do a lot of hammering with this piece...only straightened the blade. |
I know several smiths who started out using a railroad track anvil. They are not the best tool, but they work. Attaching it to a stump or making an anvil stand is a very good idea, though. Also, if you value your hearing, you can keep the thing from ringing quite so much by simply wrapping a piece of chain around the waist (the narrow portion below where you work, but above the base) of the anvil. This is true for all anvils, purpose built or improvised. Most people do two or three wraps (you can do more, but I don't think it makes much difference if you use that much more chain) around the anvil, and I have seen the chain held closed with anything from bailing wire to padlocks; whatever you have.
Anyway, you did a nice job. It's not 100% historical, but it gives you some practice. Also, if you can do this, then you are perfectly capable of upgrading existinf pieces that are not as accurate as would be nice.
-Grey
"So long as I can keep the path of honor I am well content."
-Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, The White Company
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