[Christopher Johnson]

Hi all,

(Brand-new to the forums and the hobby, so trying to learn as much as I can)

Bought my first sword last week, a Deepeeka 4211N Gladius (Pompeii variant). I know these are not the top-of-the-line swords like Albion, but they nonetheless have a reasonably good reputation among Roman reenactors.

As my first sword, I was quite surprised at the weight and the difficulty in swinging swiftly. Yes, I'm a sedentary Westerner, but I do a fair degree of bodybuilding and consider myself to have reasonably strong forearms and wrists.

SO... my question is re: the weight distribution and balance of the Deepeka 4211:

Weighing it at home, it weighs in somewhere between 1.5-2 lbs (digital scale is in 0.5 increments), which seems competitive with the Albion Pompeii (1 lb 8 oz). PoB is 4.5 inches from hilt, again exactly comparable with other more accurate Pompeii swords I've seen online.

So is the feel of this sword historically accurate? Or is the weight distributed too much towards the tip on the Deepeeka blade, making it harder to swing or thrust quickly? I would have imagined that given that Roman tactics were oriented around thrusting, the gladius would have been more like late-Medieval blades with most weight distribution towards hilt to allow quicker thrusts at the cost of weight in cleaving.

Thoughts for a newbie? ;>

Chris

[Vincent Le Chevalier]

Hi Chris, and welcome to myArmoury!

I think you're faced with a common problem there: a sword is simply not something we are used to anymore... I think you'll have to adapt to your new gladius and learn how it reacts.

It doesn't take particularly strong arms to handle swords. I myself have rather thin forearms and wrist, and can swing them without too much trouble. I'm certainly not a body-builder, I'm more like an average geek In your case, I think you have all the muscle power you'll ever need.

On the other hand, you'll have to develop quicker muscles maybe. And most of all you will have to learn not to impose your idea of motion to the sword, but rather give the initial impulse and let the weight of the sword do the rest. Do not rely overly on your wrist or arm, and try to work with your whole body. Step into your motions, turn your hips into your cuts and thrusts. These are advices that are generic to any martial art I know of (both armed or unarmed) and I'm confident they were applied by the Romans as well.

To develop a sense of how the weapon responds, I believe each person has his/her way... I'll tell you how I do. I like to do figure-8, even if they are not martially sound, to perceive the repartition of the weight. I try to feel and visualize where the weight is (normally you should feel some in your hand that stiffles its moves and some on the blade that keeps it moving around you, the proportion of both depend on the balance of the weapon). I try to relax my hand and wrist as much as possible (but of course don't let the sword fly... In fact, be sure when you start handling your sword that you are far from everything and everyone, it's a lot safer). Start slowly, you should focus on feel and not on speed or power. And it is less dangerous that way Then I do a few vertical cuts and try to stop the sword hard, just in front of me. This can also be used as an exercise to strenghten your forearm if need be. I start with a relaxed hand as well, and try to give some sort of a whip effect in the cut.

To develop the precision of control, I try to move the point around while keeping the pommel stationnary. That is not always as easy as it sounds, try it in front of a mirror and check that the pommel does not move, some people tend to fix the hand instead. Then I do the reverse exercise, moving the handle around, while keeping the tip fixed in the air. Those two seem easy, but once you know how to perform them rapidly and reliably, they are extremely useful.

Again, your mileage may vary... I'm sure other have different patterns.

Of course if you have an idea of what motions are applicable to the sword, you can do these. Could be difficult for the gladius, as I'm not aware of precise period depiction of the motions remaining... But in general motions practiced in the period are perfectly adapted to the caracteristics of the weapons used.


It is true that there could be differences in balance between your gladius and a more exacting replica. However, if as you stated the weight and center of gravity are the roughly same, it does not leave much room for variation. The difference should then lie in inertia, that is, how far on average the mass is from the center of gravity. However, on short weapons like your gladius, I believe the influence of that on the handling would not be all that significant. Certainly not something that would prevent you from using the sword, in my opinion. But then I never handled such swords and maybe someone with more experience in this class of weapon will chime in...

I hope this helps and you will learn to enjoy your sword!

[Christopher Johnson]

Vincent,

Thanks for taking the time to write such a detailed reply! I knew from browsing the forums that the community is quite helpful, but this was more than I expected.

Points well taken about getting used to wielding a sword, and I'll look to apply some of those recommendations in your post. They've just been cut-and-paste into my notes to try out this coming weekend. ;>

Cheers!

Chris

[Sean Flynt]

Compare the Deepeeka stats to Albion stats:

http://www.myArmoury.com/review_alb_gladii.html

Read more about the gladius:

http://www.myArmoury.com/feature_ironempire.html

Also, keep in mind that although these blades might cut well, in massed formations the Roman gladius was primarily a thrusting weapon. Recovery from a missed swing isn't as significant an issue as it would be with a longer cutting sword with similar blade presence.

[Nate C.]

Another thing to keep in mind: don't try to move quickly, just relax and move. You'll actually be quicker and smoother than if you try to force yourself to move quickly.

cheers,

[Matthew Amt]

Like a lot of other repro gladii, the Deepeeka's are kind of the top of the scale for size. Many originals were narrower and a little shorter, so they were probably lighter. We have a few smaller ones in Legio XX now, (from David Hare and Mark Morrow), and they are a delight to hold! Even my old Del Tin feels clunky after one of those. (The Albions are indeed VERY nice!)

On the other hand, while the Romans were certainly capable of producing some very fine blades, others seem to have been more like "sharpened crowbars"! I've seen thicknesses of 11 or 12 mm quoted for excavated blades, though it's possible some of that is due to corrosion. I haven't seen much evidence that they always cared about balance and such.

Bottom line, unless what you've got is a real frying pan (and Deepeeka's quality will vary!), it probably isn't too far off from some of the real ones. Oh, been to the Legio XX page on the Gladius?

http://www.larp.com/legioxx/gladius.html

Vale,

Matthew