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Joe Fults




Location: Midwest
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PostPosted: Mon 09 Apr, 2007 8:00 pm    Post subject: Windlass longsword better than I expected.         Reply with quote

Did a return on something else, worth mentioning that Kult of Athena was very prompt and accomodating, and decided to give this a try:

http://www.kultofathena.com/product~item~5008...gsword.htm

WIndlass calls it a 15th Century Longsword. This description that is probably as historically accurate as they could do, since the sword seems to blend element of several sword types from the period (Oakeshott types XVIIIa, XVIIIb, XIX). That being the case I'm inclined to consider it historically inspired (which is fine).

An official review will be forthcoming.

Very short assessment so far is that if you want a longsword hybrid that will look decent to anybody except a collector interested in pure histroical accuracy, a sword that is a bit more than a wallhanger, and if you don't mind a blade that is lively (a bit stiffer would be nicer), its nice for the price. Good for faire costume, layman's decoration, and form drilling. I don't think it will cut for beans (it is a blunt) and the jury is still out on durability, but it has survived a first round of firewood beating.

I suspect a physically strong swordsman will overpower the sword. Leather and wire handle wrap is decent. At $169 KoA price it appears to be a fair value and will certainly works for my purposes.

Basically details seperate it from the big guns as usual, but it appears to be a nice effort.

Note: My expectations were very low based on previous Windlass/MRL experiences. Regardless, like the XIV I got a few weeks ago, this sword seems to show some improvement that (to me) might indicate increased capability. Whether that is fact or fiction, and whether it will continue if it is fact, is debatable.

"The goal shouldn’t be to avoid being evil; it should be to actively do good." - Danah Boyd
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Shawn Shaw




Location: Boston, MA USA
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PostPosted: Mon 09 Apr, 2007 8:20 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I've got this sword, too.

I'm with you...I found it to have a lively feel, good balance, and it follows through nicely on cuts and drills. Fit and finish is also quite good and I've had no problems with loosening in the hilt (or anywhere else).

You beat on firewood with it? Can't say I thought much about doing that with mine but I guess it's nice to know it withstood such...um...treatment. :0) Was the firewood wearing maille?
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Mon 09 Apr, 2007 8:37 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Looks decent ! Sometimes one can be very happy with an approximation, historically and functional, of a sword type when the quality is over a certain minimum and the price is not excessive: One can fill out a small collection of high end pieces and still get a taste of many other types of swords or weapons at a reasonable price i.e. not go broke.

It's the old quality versus quantity when collecting and balancing one versus the other: Doing a little bit of both is fine with me.

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Joe Fults




Location: Midwest
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PostPosted: Mon 09 Apr, 2007 8:41 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Shawn Shaw wrote:
I've got this sword, too.

I'm with you...I found it to have a lively feel, good balance, and it follows through nicely on cuts and drills. Fit and finish is also quite good and I've had no problems with loosening in the hilt (or anywhere else).

You beat on firewood with it? Can't say I thought much about doing that with mine but I guess it's nice to know it withstood such...um...treatment. :0) Was the firewood wearing maille?


No mail on the firewood.

Just something I started doing with lower end pieces I plan on keeping for grins (basically ones I can afford to break). I do not go at it full force but I try to put enough into the blows to see if things will loosen up, to see if the sword sets, or whatever. Basically I'll stand ~20 lb pieces of wood and strike them from various guards. I don't swing for the fences when doing this, but I swing with force and intent (try to maintain edge alignment and all that as well). Its not proper sword use. Most would say its flat out sword abuse, but I've come to expect swords to survive it. I don't expect swords to be great at it at it, there are better tools for cutting wood, but I like to think swords should be strong enough to come through it (most are) if they are seriously intended to be weapons in any sense of the word. Free standing wood will give/fall with the strike (I don't cut anchored wood) so its not like hitting a tree.

Figure I'd rather find out if a sword I don't instinctively trust (I trust some vendors more than others) is going to fail when I expect it might, instead of when I don't (as much as possible). Probably does not prove much one way or another, but I can't exactly go chasing down street urchins to try a new sword out.

"The goal shouldn’t be to avoid being evil; it should be to actively do good." - Danah Boyd
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Joe Fults




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PostPosted: Tue 10 Apr, 2007 6:31 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

For the curious, pommel is threaded not peened. I find this interesting because many of the newer Windlass introductions have been peened. Looks nice and make maintenance a breeze.

Light feel and fair balance.

Tang appears to be reasonable. In a one word description, I'd say sufficient. I would like a bit more beef to it though. Not a rat tail, but also not the most confidence inspiring tang I've ever seen. Still, assuming it holds up, all is good.

Blade should be stiffer IMO.

It would have been nice if they stuck with a sword type instead of blending several. The typology melting pot is only going to be an issue for collectors placing emphasis on historical accuracy. Fortunately for Windlass, that is a group of people I don't think this sword is designed to sell to in the first place.

Good deal at the price I paid if you know what you are buying and it suits your needs.

"The goal shouldn’t be to avoid being evil; it should be to actively do good." - Danah Boyd
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Tue 10 Apr, 2007 6:53 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Joe Fults wrote:
It would have been nice if they stuck with a sword type instead of blending several. The typology melting pot is only going to be an issue for collectors placing emphasis on historical accuracy. Fortunately for Windlass, that is a group of people I don't think this sword is designed to sell to in the first place.


Just a quick note: plenty of historical swords fall outside of the Oakeshott typology. There are plenty of historical blends. The question would be how close Windlass got to any original it's based off.

I'm looking forward to seeing this one. Happy

Happy

ChadA

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Robin Smith




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PostPosted: Tue 10 Apr, 2007 7:23 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Chad Arnow wrote:
Just a quick note: plenty of historical swords fall outside of the Oakeshott typology. There are plenty of historical blends. The question would be how close Windlass got to any original it's based off.

I'm looking forward to seeing this one. Happy
I'm gonna second Chad on this. The typologies are a purely modern invention, and there are plenty of tweeners and swords that defy the typology boundaries. In period, they didn't classify their swords....
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Joe Fults




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PostPosted: Tue 10 Apr, 2007 7:33 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Regarding typology, sure its a modern construct, but Windlass/MRL does slap Ewart on their catalogs. Nothing wrong with what they have done, just leaves me in a place where I'm more comfortable calling this a historically inspired piece than a reproduction.
"The goal shouldn’t be to avoid being evil; it should be to actively do good." - Danah Boyd
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Mel Creery




Location: Virginia
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PostPosted: Thu 12 Apr, 2007 10:17 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I like Windlass products so far. I have the Poignard which likely isn't historically accurate but is a decent looking and entirely functional side arm. I also have the Hewing Spear which also is probably not historically accurate but it is stout and commands a certain degree of respect. They serve my needs as a beginner because they're easy on the purse and as I practice sharpening and polishing I needn't worry about the possibility of harming a more valuable piece. I'm still looking for the right shaft for my spear and I'm thinking of making a different scabbard for the short blade...
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Kerry G. Neuls





Joined: 31 Mar 2007

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PostPosted: Thu 12 Apr, 2007 11:00 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thought maybe you were cutting firewood like Mathew Broderick in Ladyhawk Big Grin
And in this moment...
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we few shall carry hope
within our bloodied hands

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Joe Fults




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PostPosted: Fri 13 Apr, 2007 9:06 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Kerry G. Neuls wrote:
Thought maybe you were cutting firewood like Mathew Broderick in Ladyhawk Big Grin


Nope...nice Fiskars axe for that! :-)

"The goal shouldn’t be to avoid being evil; it should be to actively do good." - Danah Boyd
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John H





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PostPosted: Fri 13 Apr, 2007 11:03 am    Post subject: I've had this sword for over a year         Reply with quote

I've used it for light flourishing primarily, have not cut with it.

For the price, a great sword in my opinion.

The fit and finish on mine is excellent. I like it.
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Joe Fults




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PostPosted: Fri 20 Apr, 2007 4:11 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Gave this sword a pool noodle workout today.

For an unsharpened sword it cuts noodles quite nicely. Accelerates quickly, has decent feel, seems to stop and change direction decently as well (as my poor technique allows).

Everything still nice and tight too.

So far so good.

"The goal shouldn’t be to avoid being evil; it should be to actively do good." - Danah Boyd
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Jean Henri Chandler




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PostPosted: Fri 20 Apr, 2007 7:58 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Joe Fults wrote:
Gave this sword a pool noodle workout today.

For an unsharpened sword it cuts noodles quite nicely. Accelerates quickly, has decent feel, seems to stop and change direction decently as well (as my poor technique allows).

Everything still nice and tight too.

So far so good.


If it can cut pool noodles it must have close to an edge, not one of those heavy rebated edges like on my hanwei viking sword.

I got a Katbalger from MRL sharpened and it had a secondary bevel on it, haven't tried cutting with it yet but I doubt it cuts very well. Do they always sharpen them like that ? Does KoA do it any different?

I didn't see any info on weight and balance point... do you have all those dimensions and measurments available?

Jean

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Joe Fults




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PostPosted: Fri 20 Apr, 2007 9:13 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jean Henri Chandler wrote:
I got a Katbalger from MRL sharpened and it had a secondary bevel on it, haven't tried cutting with it yet but I doubt it cuts very well. Do they always sharpen them like that ? Does KoA do it any different?

I didn't see any info on weight and balance point... do you have all those dimensions and measurments available?

Jean


Jean,

I have no idea how MRL does their sharpened edges, or how KoA does them. I don't have a sharpened sword from either vendor, and the unsharpened swords I do have a fairly unsharp. Sorry I can't help with that.

As for measurements...I have not taken any yet and when I get around to it they will get released whenever the review gets released. I'm not wanting to rush it yet, there can always be surprises. If there is something specific you want please PM me and I'll send to you privately.

"The goal shouldn’t be to avoid being evil; it should be to actively do good." - Danah Boyd
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Lancelot Chan
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PostPosted: Fri 20 Apr, 2007 10:59 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jeanry, if you want to check how did the sharp windlass sword performed, including the 15th century longsword, you may check my review here: http://www.rsw.com.hk/5-swords.htm

I included stats like weight and balance point.

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Jean Henri Chandler




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PostPosted: Sat 21 Apr, 2007 2:48 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Lancelot Chan wrote:
Jeanry, if you want to check how did the sharp windlass sword performed, including the 15th century longsword, you may check my review here: http://www.rsw.com.hk/5-swords.htm

I included stats like weight and balance point.


Thanks Lance, much apprecaited. Send me a pM when you have a moment there is something else I'd like to chat with you about.

Jean

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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Sat 21 Apr, 2007 6:50 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jean Henri Chandler wrote:
If it can cut pool noodles it must have close to an edge, not one of those heavy rebated edges like on my hanwei viking sword.

I got a Katbalger from MRL sharpened and it had a secondary bevel on it, haven't tried cutting with it yet but I doubt it cuts very well. Do they always sharpen them like that ? Does KoA do it any different?


Jean,
I believe all their swords are shipped from India unsharpened. It may be a legal thing; I don't know for sure. I'm not sure if Kult of Athena does their own sharpening or if they buy swords sharpened in Conyers, GA by MRL. My guess would be the latter.

Since the swords are likely unsharp when made, the kind of sharpening you're paying for is almost certainly going to involve a secondary bevel. I doubt they're going to take the time to do a good blending of edge and flat to help avoid that. That would raise the cost of the sharpening.

If you look at swords made by Albion and A&A the edge bevel is part of the fabrication/polishing process, not added afterward. While some swords like the Brescia and Regent have a designed somewhat secondary bevel to the edge (created by the blade's cross-section needs), it's still a wholly different and better sharpening than you'd probably get on an aftermarket sharpening of a Windlass or Del Tin.

Happy

ChadA

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Joe Fults




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PostPosted: Sat 21 Apr, 2007 2:17 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Lancelot Chan wrote:
Jeanry, if you want to check how did the sharp windlass sword performed, including the 15th century longsword, you may check my review here: http://www.rsw.com.hk/5-swords.htm

I included stats like weight and balance point.


Shame on me for forgetting that you had this up.

Doh! Eek!

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Joe Fults




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PostPosted: Sat 21 Apr, 2007 6:39 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Got another decent workout today.

Came through it in good shape again.

Pommel is a screw on, and it did finally loosen up some today. An annoying thing that does tend to happen with pommels of this type (screw on). Nice thing about it is that the annoynance was very easy to resolve.

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