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Nick Trueman
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 Posted: Tue 17 Apr, 2007 4:11 am Post subject: Viking sword, Lund? |
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Hi
A while back some good pics were posted about this sword and I have have just spent a hour looking for them? Anyway I remember a chap sent a pic of a pommel that came of a similiar sword to that of the Lund sword?
My memory fails me but I think I saw this pommel here?
Thanks Nick
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Nick Trueman
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| Posted: Tue 17 Apr, 2007 4:16 am Post subject: |
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Actually any info or pics would be appreciated. but the pommel from its sister sword is what Im looking for.
Thanks again,
N
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Jean Le-Palud
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| Posted: Tue 17 Apr, 2007 5:05 am Post subject: |
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Hi Nick,
The picture you showed is of the Dyback sword. Now on display at Historiska Museum, Stockholm.
Another picture, with the lower part of the pommel positioned upside down .
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Nick Trueman
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| Posted: Tue 17 Apr, 2007 5:16 am Post subject: |
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Dyback sword!
Thank you, I was misinformed.
Nick
| Jean Le-Palud wrote: | Hi Nick,
The picture you showed is of the Dyback sword. Now on display at Historiska Museum, Stockholm.
Another picture, with the lower part of the pommel positioned upside down . |
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Douglas S
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| Posted: Tue 17 Apr, 2007 11:07 am Post subject: |
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I believe that the lower part of the guard in this sword is actually the locket, or scabbard mouth, that has fused to the guard.
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Nick Trueman
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| Posted: Tue 17 Apr, 2007 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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Douglas
Yep thats true, my brain is frying trying to remember where I saw the comparative sword to this one which still has a pommel.
Actually I think maybe only the pommel was only discovered?
It was a while back
N
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Jim Adelsen
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Wed 18 Apr, 2007 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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Does anyone have a good source of info for this sword? I was disappointed to see it's not in Swords Of the Viking Age. I thought I had read that the hilt was silver plated originally though it obviously has a goldish look to it now.
www.viking-shield.com
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Jean Le-Palud
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| Posted: Wed 18 Apr, 2007 11:42 pm Post subject: |
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A document of mine states that "The curved lower and upper guards are of gilt-silver inlaid with niello; the (upper part of the) pommel is lost... The guards and scabbard mouth have cast and punched decorationin high relief.....
Stylistically, the Dybäck sword and another closely related one from Vrangabäck, also in southern Sweden, have generally been regarded as having been made in the Danish kingdom under strong Anglo-Saxon influence;"
The sword is item SHM 4515 at Statens Historika Museum.
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Mikko Kuusirati
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| Posted: Thu 19 Apr, 2007 3:08 am Post subject: |
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FWIW, the Dybäck sword is featured along with several similar ones in István Rácz's photobook "Viikinkien Perintö", where it's labeled "Skoone Östra Vemmenshög, Statens Historiska Museum 4515": all the complete specimens of this type depicted there have five-lobed pommels of varying styles.
"And sin, young man, is when you treat people like things. Including yourself. That's what sin is."
— Terry Pratchett, Carpe Jugulum
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Nick Trueman
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| Posted: Thu 19 Apr, 2007 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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Hi
Ok I found or was sent a PDF about a Rus sword, it happens to also show the pommel of Dybacks sister sword! But I cant get the image from the PDF file. I know very little about computers, maybe someone here can help and I will be able to post the pic.
Cheers
Nick
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Nick Trueman
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| Posted: Thu 19 Apr, 2007 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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Thankyou Dan!
Here she is.
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Dan Dickinson
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Fri 20 Apr, 2007 4:09 am Post subject: |
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So a really quick and dirty photo mod has the original looking something like this:
Attachment: 37.8 KB
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Jim Adelsen
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Fri 20 Apr, 2007 6:18 am Post subject: |
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Interesting. Correct me if I'm wrong but gilt silver is just an outer covering kinda like plating? And niello is black? Kinda confusing since it always looks gold in pictures...
| Jean Le-Palud wrote: | A document of mine states that "The curved lower and upper guards are of gilt-silver inlaid with niello; the (upper part of the) pommel is lost... The guards and scabbard mouth have cast and punched decorationin high relief.....
Stylistically, the Dybäck sword and another closely related one from Vrangabäck, also in southern Sweden, have generally been regarded as having been made in the Danish kingdom under strong Anglo-Saxon influence;"
The sword is item SHM 4515 at Statens Historika Museum. |
www.viking-shield.com
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Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Fri 20 Apr, 2007 6:49 am Post subject: |
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| Jim Adelsen wrote: | Interesting. Correct me if I'm wrong but gilt silver is just an outer covering kinda like plating? And niello is black? Kinda confusing since it always looks gold in pictures...
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This is always confusing as phrases like silver-gilt can mean 1) silver overlayed with gold -or- 2) silver used as a gilding agent over some other method (as in "gilt with silver"). I typically assume "silver gilt" means #1, while silver-gilt means #2.
Scholars and other authors aren't akways careful with how they use such terms.
ChadA
http://chadarnow.com/
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Jean Le-Palud
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| Posted: Fri 20 Apr, 2007 8:37 am Post subject: |
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Nick,
Thank you very much for this picture, I had never heard of this sister to the Dybäck sword.
What is interesting is that now we can imagine how the complete thing looked like (as on the photo mod by Dan).
Jim and Chad,
It's a bit more confusing for me since english is not my language, but I always understood "gilt-silver" as silver covered with gold, and after seeing the real thing at Stockholm I think I was right.
Another argument is found in a sentence of the same document saying "The weight of precious metal alone employed on the hilt and scabbard represents significant wealth."
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Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Fri 20 Apr, 2007 8:51 am Post subject: |
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| Jean Le-Palud wrote: |
Jim and Chad,
It's a bit more confusing for me since english is not my language, but I always understood "gilt-silver" as silver covered with gold, and after seeing the real thing at Stockholm I think I was right.
Another argument is found in a sentence of the same document saying "The weight of precious metal alone employed on the hilt and scabbard represents significant wealth." |
I think it should more correctly by "gilt silver" with no dash, making it silver that has been gilt with something (almost always gold). But that's just my opinion.
Based on the gold coloring, I'd guess it to be gilt silver, not anything else.
ChadA
http://chadarnow.com/
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Nick Trueman
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| Posted: Fri 20 Apr, 2007 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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NO worries.
I only found out not long ago too. I will go through the PDF I have and see what it says about it and put it down here.
I would think it was made by the same craftsman?
N
| Jean Le-Palud wrote: | Nick,
Thank you very much for this picture, I had never heard of this sister to the Dybäck sword.
What is interesting is that now we can imagine how the complete thing looked like (as on the photo mod by Dan).
Jim and Chad,
It's a bit more confusing for me since english is not my language, but I always understood "gilt-silver" as silver covered with gold, and after seeing the real thing at Stockholm I think I was right.
Another argument is found in a sentence of the same document saying "The weight of precious metal alone employed on the hilt and scabbard represents significant wealth." |
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This is a standard topic