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Phillip H. Lee





Joined: 09 Apr 2007

Posts: 9

PostPosted: Sun 15 Apr, 2007 5:04 pm    Post subject: Plate armor and wars?         Reply with quote

Hello,

Did the Italian Wars during the late 15th-early 16th centuries involve relatively widespread use of plate harnesses such as the Gothic, Milanese, or Maximillian types? Also, could anyone direct me to any specific wars that involved full plate harnesses? I would also highly appreciate any primary sources that could assist me in my research.
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Josh Warren




Location: Manhattan, Kansas
Joined: 01 Nov 2006

Posts: 111

PostPosted: Sun 15 Apr, 2007 7:10 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yes, plenty of beautiful suits of armour of several styles would have been in use during that period.

I understand that the 15th century armours from the famous collection at Mantova were dedicated to the monastery of Santa Maria delle Grazie after the battle of Marignano in 1515.

Non Concedo
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Lafayette C Curtis




Location: Indonesia
Joined: 29 Nov 2006
Reading list: 7 books

Posts: 2,698

PostPosted: Sun 15 Apr, 2007 7:24 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well, another set of wars you might want to look into is the Franco-Burgundian conflicts in the second half of the 15th century, including the War of the Public Weal. Among the primary sources of this period is Philippe de Commynes's memoirs:

http://www.r3.org/bookcase/de_commynes/
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William Knight




Location: Mid atlantic, US
Joined: 02 Oct 2005

Posts: 133

PostPosted: Mon 16 Apr, 2007 8:55 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'd imagine plenty of 'later' milanese harness was seen in the early stages of the wars, plus maybe late 'west european' and 'milanese export' harnesses on the French and Spanish (for the french at least they'd look kind of like the armour in Froissart--almost no examples survive intact of this style of armour). By the War of the League of Cambrai (1508-1516) and the battles of Biocca (1522) and Pavia (1525) it would be mostly 'international' 16th c rounded plate harness with some 'Maximillian' thrown in there. Looking at the 'Triumph of Maximillian' the war of the League of Cambrai might have involved some scattered gothic harnesses thrown in there occasionally, but rarely, and the earlier stages of the wars didn't involve the HRE directly. Since I've seen little pictoral evidence for use of what I'd call 'gothic harness'--ie something like the Sigismund of Tirol suit ouside of Southern Germany and maybe Hungary, and they mostly fell out of use after the turn of the century (judging by pictoral sources), I doubt many gothic armours would have been in use, save perhaps a few by the swiss--though the swiss chronicles I've seen indicate a far more 'western european' style of armour--like this picture, swiss in the upper part of the page:http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons...garten.jpg.
But since all but the Maximillian style you mentioned were styles of the late 15th cenutry, I'd suspect the Burgundy Wars would see a lot more use of those styles, though I'd guess south german gothic least of all, since IIRC the big players to be (directly) involved were the Swiss and the Burgundians, though Sigismund the Wealthy of Tirol played a role so maybe gothic harness did show up.
-Wilhelm
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