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Craig Peters




PostPosted: Sat 07 Apr, 2007 6:39 pm    Post subject: Spear Head Attachments         Reply with quote

How were spear heads historically attached to wood? What methods did medieval people use to prevent them from falling off the haft?
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Etienne Hamel




Location: Granby (QC) canada
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PostPosted: Sat 07 Apr, 2007 7:15 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I Think its rivetted to the shaft
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Alex Oster




Location: Washington and Yokohama
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PostPosted: Sat 07 Apr, 2007 7:33 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Glue has been around for a long time. Pitch, tar, and an extremely close fit will do wonders.
The pen is mightier than the sword, especially since it can get past security and be stabbed it into a jugular.
This site would be better if everytime I clicked submit... I got to hear a whip crack!
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Sat 07 Apr, 2007 8:02 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Very good question and I can't really give a " historical " answer, but I wonder how modern reproductions spear heads are secured to the half.

My 12th century A & A spear head seems to not have a rivet to hold it in place and neither does my A & A Viking spear.

Either a pressure fit by itself or using some adhesive " traditional " ( cutler's resin ? ) or modern epoxy ?

Just for the sake of safety on my spears I drilled a small hole through just one side of the socket and used a nail + a little 5 minute epoxy. ( Also, used the same technique to install Windlass butt spikes I got from Kult of Athena ).

With a spear head not already glued on I would put glue just close to the edge of a tight fitting socket so that removing a broken shaft wouldn't be too much of a " pain " should it need replacement later. The nail is more a backup safety retaining device as I think a well fitted aft and just a minimum of adhesive would normally hold by itself the spearhead.

For removing a glued in spear head I would first cut the aft off close to the socket and then drill multiple holes into the wood and chisel out the rest. ( Oh, might be worth trying removing the nail first and see if the aft can be forced loose first before going for plan B ).

Well. I hope someone will answer the question from a historical perspective also and my " modern " approach is still useful as a side issue. ( At least a bit relevant to the topic ).

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Alex Oster




Location: Washington and Yokohama
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PostPosted: Sat 07 Apr, 2007 8:50 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Theres always leather lashing a head on... and I was just thinking of what the old wooden clothes pins looked like. Maybe a similar cut near the end of the shaft to wedge it in there tighter?
I guess it depends on the era, culture, fasion, and material used in shaft and head construction.
Consider the Yari vs the bronze age spear...

The pen is mightier than the sword, especially since it can get past security and be stabbed it into a jugular.
This site would be better if everytime I clicked submit... I got to hear a whip crack!
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Elling Polden




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PostPosted: Sun 08 Apr, 2007 3:30 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

the norwegian laws for the Leidag (shipborne levy) states that "The spear shall be well shaftes, and held in place by a single nail that passes through the socket, or two nails that go half the way each.

Most of the preserved spearheads have rivet holes.

"this [fight] looks curious, almost like a game. See, they are looking around them before they fall, to find a dry spot to fall on, or they are falling on their shields. Can you see blood on their cloths and weapons? No. This must be trickery."
-Reidar Sendeman, from King Sverre's Saga, 1201
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W. R. Reynolds




Location: Ramona, CA
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PostPosted: Sun 08 Apr, 2007 9:44 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Look in Waldman's "Hafted weapons in Medieval and Renaissance Europe", it has some wonderful shots of x-ray photos done on halberds. These show both types of nail attachments mentioned in Elling's post. While it is true that these are not spears per se, it would be hard not to imagine that a similar system would be used for most pole weapons.
Bill

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Hugh Knight




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PostPosted: Sun 08 Apr, 2007 9:49 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

These scans aren't really great, but if you look close enough at some good scans of Gladiatoria you can see rivet heads/nails holding the spear heads on:

http://www.thehaca.com/Manuals/Gladiatoria/6.jpg

Regards,
Hugh
www.schlachtschule.org
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Craig Peters




PostPosted: Sun 08 Apr, 2007 12:57 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have the new translation of Paulus Kal by Christian Tobler. Though I never considered using it to check, it might have nails or rivets on the spear heads.

Thanks for everyone's input.
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Hugh Knight




Location: San Bernardino, CA
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PostPosted: Sun 08 Apr, 2007 1:52 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Craig Peters wrote:
I have the new translation of Paulus Kal by Christian Tobler. Though I never considered using it to check, it might have nails or rivets on the spear heads.


You won't find rivets on the spears in the Kal Fechtbuch proper, but if you turn to p. 206 there's a very high-resolution scan of a plate from Gladiatoria on the bottom-left of the page that *clearly* shows a rivet.

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Hugh
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Jared Smith




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PostPosted: Sun 08 Apr, 2007 2:02 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I would advocate both.
A good close fit is desirable structurally. Wood by itself, even if carefully seasoned, may change dimensions several thousands of an inch and become loose in winter or tight in summer. The glue or pitch provides an elastic forgiveness of this.

But, the spear sockets are conical and may tend to loosen despite the resins unnoticed. A small nail or spike driven through a hole will help the head stay positioned where there will not be significant play.

Absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence!
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Fabrice Cognot
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Location: Dijon
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PostPosted: Mon 09 Apr, 2007 4:52 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

As said already, depends a lot on time/area.

But nails, either one or two diametrically opposite have been used since the Bronze Age, from what I have seen. Not always, not everywhere, but frequently enough.

Cheers

Fab

PhD in medieval archeology.
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