Cold Steel Gross Messer -- myArmoury.com

Matthew G.M. Korenkiewicz · Posted: Mon 03 Dec, 2007 1:56 pm Post subject: Cold Steel Gross Messer

Okay, one might wonder whether or not I've suddenly become infatuated with Cold Steel swords
or for that matter the reviews at Sword Buyers Guide, and the relatively inexpensive price-tags
there in. Since I last purchased the Cold Steel 1796 Light Cavalry Saber seen here :

http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=11594

I convinced myself to add the Cold Steel Gross Messer to my small collection as Mr. Tony Brass
put his up-for-sale in myArmoury's classifieds for an even lower price. Yes, the sword had been
used, but Tony encouraged my interest with the fact that his messer had suffered little but a scuff
here and there, and looked exactly like the sword of Nathan Robinson's myArmoury's review ! Of
course I high-tailed it to the reviews, tagged the messer, and was further encouraged by what I
read there.

http://www.myArmoury.com/review_cs_mess.html

Still, I zip-zapped over to SBG once again, and noted their video and review as well ...

http://www.sword-buyers-guide.com/gross-messer.html

Enough read, I thought, and struck a deal with Tony for his California-to-Michigan bound
sword !

For the price, the Messer's scabbard is rather nice. It fits well and is not too tight.
Photobucket image

Even used, the blade has retained its shape and finish. Nothing remarkable, mind
you, but also rather nice.
Photobucket image

As myArmoury's review notes, a weak-point is the threaded-pommel. Meanwhile, the
full tang is firmly pinned to the grip.
Photobucket image

Another reason I decided to purchase Tony's Messer was that I've become interested in
Albion's Knecht -- a sword of a much larger price-tag, and I believe a much longer wait at
this time. But then again, I was thinking of planning for the sword next year and thought the
Cold Steel brand might be a good starting point to see if the somewhat similar styling
appealled ...

http://www.albion-swords.com/swords/albion/ne...knecht.htm

First off, I was very pleased with the transaction with Tony. We had excellent contact with
one another throughout and the Messer arrived in good time and packaged soundly for its
trip. Secondly, this sword MIGHT be described as a monster if it were far closer to historical
accuracy. The darn thing is not so much a large knife as it seems an extra-large cleaver, as
though someone needed a very special chopper at the butcher's shop. One that could handle
the occasional " Steak Sale ! " day when there would be just as much meat in need of chopping
as people in need of it chopped ... B-)

As interesting as I find Cold Steel's Gross Messer it would be a hard sword to reccomend unless
you were smitten by its look, size, and -- giving SBG's review its due -- obvious weighty power. I hope
Nathan R. doesn't mind me borrowing his " Conclusion " on Cold Steel's messer because I think
he hits the mark :

Nathan concludes :

All in all, the Cold Steel Grosse Messer is a tight, well-made sword in terms of construction and materials.
I can't imagine it taking much damage from anything put in front of it. If the potential buyer is looking for a
tough-as-nails sword capable of devastating cuts on fixed targets, this sword just might fit that bill rather
well. There are very few production-made swords of this style available, and this is certainly a good attempt
to fill that niche.

The quality of heat treat on the blade, the edge geometry, and tight overall build tolerances will be enough for
many buyers to want to consider this an addition to their collection.

If the buyer is looking for a historically accurate Grosse Messer that handles with agility and ease while
maintaining cutting power, this sword will not fit that order. There are too many inconsistencies present when
compared to historical counterparts. The extreme weight and sluggish handling prevents it from being considered
a weapon for martial arts use, and the lack of subtlety of form and line will keep it from being appealing to the
collector looking for an authentic replica.

The suggested retail price on the sword is $300 USD. The notion of value is entirely subjective, but I simply
cannot state that I feel this sword is worth that asking price. Luckily, it can be found for substantially less from
many on-line sellers. At a bit less than $200, I'd say it would be a good buy for those happy with what this sword
can offer. For me, and my collecting tastes, this piece simply doesn't meet enough of my needs.

Chad Arnow · myArmoury Team

For what it's worth, there have been a couple of instances of this sword breaking at the blade shoulder/tang juncture.

Matthew G.M. Korenkiewicz · Posted: Mon 03 Dec, 2007 4:56 pm Post subject:

Chad Arnow · myArmoury Team

Matthew G.M. Korenkiewicz · Posted: Mon 03 Dec, 2007 5:15 pm Post subject:

Chad Arnow · myArmoury Team

Matthew G.M. Korenkiewicz · Posted: Mon 03 Dec, 2007 9:39 pm Post subject:

Bob Burns · Posted: Mon 03 Dec, 2007 11:07 pm Post subject:

I am grateful that a link was provided to my post, as I would hate for my "Collecting Comrades" to spend too much for this sword and therefore expecting it to perform well like Cold Steel shows on their video. If you purchase the Grosse
Messer from Cold Steel, your going to pay $299.95. However, if you purchase the Cold Steel "Gross Messer" at
Kult of Athena, you will only pay $169.95 as I did almost some 2 years ago. For $169.00 the sword is OK, just don't expect it to perform like an Albion "Knecht"! Laughing Out Loud

The Albion "Knecht" is a SWORD with Life! The Cold Steel "Grosse Messer" is a sword that is a sharp dead length of steel with a grip and a crossguard, with a tang that is not worth diddly squat!
I wrote three emails and left 2 or 3 phone messages with Cold Steel in regard to the tang snapping in two about 1 3/4"
from the crossguard in the grip, dead center where one of the rivet holes are located. Upon examination and I also got the same opinion from one of the fine swordsmiths in the myArmoury Forum who personally examined the break on the tang of my Grosse Messer and he agreed that the steel in the tang is brittle Exclamation

All I had tried to cut through was a board on a pallet that was 3/4 of an inch thick and at the most 4 inches wide and a dried out board at that. I cut in a clean downward motion with the flat of the board facing me and had the back of the pallet leaning against something. It was a fast, hard, clean cut and it snapped in half. I've done lot's of board breaking with my hand in karate, 2, 3 and 4 boards at a time, so I understand all about the proper execution, stance, force of power that is called "Chi", and believe me, this board was not Teak or Cocabola! LOL. It was "Pine"! LOL
This was early in my first year of shopping at Kult of Athena and Ryan (Owner) was upset and sorry the sword broke on me and I told him right away, Ryan your the vendor Not the manufacturer, this has nothing to do with you whatsoever!
Ryan kept in stock everything from the real cheap "Knock Offs" to Albion at that time, Arms & Armor products were not at Kult of Athena at that time, this was before I got involved and middle manned things with Kult of Athena and Arms & Armor
with several emails and several phone calls to each of them to bring things together and get Arms & Armor products into Kult of Athena. So now, Ryan has everything in stock from the cheap "Knock Offs" to Albion and Arms & Armor (Albion and Arms & Armor listed in alphabetical order, so as to not show any favoritism, because in my opinon both these companies are "Top Shelf PREMO" aka Awesome!!

If you did not pay too much for the Grosse Messer, Matt, then I'd say you did OK, you will get some idea of what a
Gross Messer sword is, but not to the magnitude of what it actually was in it's day. To get the latter, well then you would need to either buy the Albion "Knecht" or ask Arms & Armor to make a custom Grosse Messer for you.
The blade in the Cold Steel Grosse Messer is just too heavy and I mean you do feel the 4 pounds! It's not well balanced and lively like the Albion Knecht would be, but then again it is not anywhere near the same price either!

My emails and phone messages were cordial and business like, they were not even remotely obnoxious, angry or crass. Six messages in all and not one single response from Cold Steel Exclamation

If I were to have even the slightest problems with something from Albion, Arms & Armor, Chivalry Bookshelf,
Kult of Athena or any of the professional product manufacturers that are in the forum of myArmoury. I know that without question, I would get a very concerned response so fast that I would be surprised Exclamation

In fact, I had a "mild" problem with each of these four companies and I mean they were very mild. Each one of them responded in a heartbeat and at the end of the phone call or email, I was more than satisfied, I was HAPPY!
These are 1st Class Companies, from whom most of the businesses out there could learn a whole lot!
I salute them with "Respect"!

Sincerely!

Bob

Matthew G.M. Korenkiewicz · Posted: Tue 04 Dec, 2007 11:53 am Post subject:

Thanks for chipping in, Bob. I still wonder if there are any Cold Steel Messer owners who
have NOT had a problem with either the sword or the company ...

With all this said, I'm probably gonna have a devil of a time trying to resell this beastie
should it come to that. B-)

Live and learn.

Joel Chesser · Posted: Tue 04 Dec, 2007 4:40 pm Post subject:

I purchased this sword from KOA about two years ago. I had read the the Nathan's and Bob's reviews of this sword, and had also read about the various problems with it and with Cold Steel's customer service. I finally decided I would take the chance, since the price was good, and buy it. In between placing my order and it's arrival, Bob shared his unfortunate experience. Needless to say I have been very careful with it.

Over all though, I have to say I have not had any problems with it, and in fact like it very much. I realize that it is not the most historically accurate piece, and did when I bought it, however I thought and still think it's a very attractive weapon. Mine seems very solid and well put together, with a good finish and edge, it's only draw back to me is it's weight. I have only done very light cutting on pumpkins, but was impressed with how well it cut. I don't intend to cut anything more then that. All in all, I'm pretty happy with my purchase. At the very least, to me, it makes an attractive wall hanger.

Bob Burns · Posted: Tue 04 Dec, 2007 4:59 pm Post subject:

At Kult of Athena's price of $169.95 that's not a bad deal. No need to fear cutting heavy cardboard, at least none that I experienced. If the steel in the tang was as good as the steel in the blade, i highly doubt the tang would snap.
But like I said, one of the "Swordsmiths" who also comes into myArmoury said on personal hands on examination of my broken Grosse Messer said, "The tang is brittle".

I was not bent out of shape that a $169.95 sword snapped on me in that situation. Now if I had paid the Cold Steel price of $299.95 I would have been rather upset.
What got my blood pressure up, was the fact that they never responded!
By the way, I've looked at several Chinese swords by Hanwei at Kult of Athena, though they are expensive, they are very nice! Especially that "Song Sword". Folded pattern steel and it has fantastic dynamics in wielding it! WOW!
Cuts the air with a nice whistle!

I am So Very Grateful to live so close to Kult of Athena. I did not know they were near me until I read a post in here and how good doing business was with them. Whereupon I went into the website again, but this time with a serious attitude and looked for their location. First thing I saw was the area code (847), My jaw about hit the floor Exclamation

Enjoy your Messer, just don't whack at any wood and you should be fine!

Sincerely!

Bob

Dan Dickinson · Industry Professional

If the tang is brittle, I wonder the feasibility of re-tempering just the tang to soften it a bit. Any suggestions?
Dan

Jean Thibodeau · Posted: Tue 04 Dec, 2007 8:09 pm Post subject:

Matthew D G · Posted: Tue 04 Dec, 2007 8:48 pm Post subject:

I have wanted to buy this sword for some time and if you dont mind me asking a few questions, is this sword worth the money? I've read some good reviews and a lot of bad ones so is it worth the risk? oh and congrats on getting a good Messer and lets all hope it dosent brake Happy

Joel Chesser · Posted: Tue 04 Dec, 2007 9:04 pm Post subject:

I think it's worth picking up especially at the KOA.
Jean, the thing about softening the tang sounds really good, I wonder if it would work. If it could, I'm really tempted to try it. hmmmm the possibilities...
It seems kind of unlikely though that some batches of the sword are worse then others. I guess it can't be ruled out, it just seems improbable to me.

Jean Thibodeau · Posted: Tue 04 Dec, 2007 9:23 pm Post subject:

Matthew G.M. Korenkiewicz · Posted: Wed 05 Dec, 2007 9:23 am Post subject:

Joel Chesser · Posted: Wed 05 Dec, 2007 10:25 am Post subject:

"I do wonder how easily the wood grip would be to dismantle, though ? if in fact the
tang could be improved by some treatment."

I have been wondering the same thing myself, frankly that innitial dissmanteling is as daunting to me as any other part of the process. Then again i kind of burned myself a while back when i took apart a Windlass european sword and never put it back together. Still, in all, the idea is really tempting. New grip, possibly less beefy with a cord and leather wrap or maybe some kind of burl wood...

Jean Thibodeau · Posted: Wed 05 Dec, 2007 9:10 pm Post subject:

Matthew G.M. Korenkiewicz · Posted: Wed 05 Dec, 2007 9:39 pm Post subject: