Today's update:
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Spotlight: Oakeshott Type XVII Swords
An article by Chad Arnow
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A Visitor's Experience: The Wallace Collection
An article by Chad Arnow
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Albion Armorers Sempach Sword
Added to Chad's Collection
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Wallpaper: Albion Sempach and Landgraf
Created by Nathan Robinson
As always, you can see our Complete History of Updates listed right from our home page.
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Very good reviews Chad. I'd like to add that you've contributed to my proudness of owning a AT 1526 "Lady Ash".
:) :) :)
:) :) :)
Very nice job, Chad! I have a real soft spot for those XVII's. I think they are extremely sexy! Is the figure xvii.5 the same one as this? I've had that one in my list of favorites for a very long time.
Helen, you should be proud! Lucky you. :)
Helen, you should be proud! Lucky you. :)
| Pamela Muir wrote: |
| Very nice job, Chad! I have a real soft spot for those XVII's. I think they are extremely sexy! Is the figure xvii.5 the same one as this? I've had that one in my list of favorites for a very long time.
|
Pamela,
Yes, that's the one. It's such a neat example. By the way, I like Type XVII's, too. :) The Sempach really changed my mind about this type and has changed my collecting habits in some ways, too. I now have this crazy urge to assemble a transitional harness....
Thanks for the kind words, Helen and Pamela.
This spotlight completes our Oakeshott Spotlight Series, which is something exciting for me. The Wallace Collection article is the latest in what is an ongoing series highlighting museums of interest to our community. First-hand, 3-dimensional viewing of museum pieces is the best way to truly appreciate them. We're hoping to bring a little of the experience to the reader, as well as perhaps encourage them to make their own visits.
Very good articles. :cool:
QUOTE:
" While some are said to display excellent handling characteristics, others seem to be designed to damage and crack armour, much like an axe or warhammer. "
Interesting as well as the fact that cutting ability is surprisingly good against soft target. Against plate the blade would seem to be able to function like a sharpened bar of steel or a mace with a single sharpened flange: The most interesting thing to me is that adds a different way of looking at the use of this king of blade as mainly a thrusting weapon.
The forward balance of some of the heavier examples would give type XVII that smashing concussive quality that other thrusting types with balance much closer to the guard would have to depend mostly on the thrust: So these type XVII give you an extra option of being a sword and a blunt force trauma weapon.
Well, this is the first time I've read this interpretation ( Or if I have before it didn't register. ) , at the very least this small phrase
make me see the type XVII in a completely different way. :cool: :cool: :cool:
QUOTE:
" While some are said to display excellent handling characteristics, others seem to be designed to damage and crack armour, much like an axe or warhammer. "
Interesting as well as the fact that cutting ability is surprisingly good against soft target. Against plate the blade would seem to be able to function like a sharpened bar of steel or a mace with a single sharpened flange: The most interesting thing to me is that adds a different way of looking at the use of this king of blade as mainly a thrusting weapon.
The forward balance of some of the heavier examples would give type XVII that smashing concussive quality that other thrusting types with balance much closer to the guard would have to depend mostly on the thrust: So these type XVII give you an extra option of being a sword and a blunt force trauma weapon.
Well, this is the first time I've read this interpretation ( Or if I have before it didn't register. ) , at the very least this small phrase
make me see the type XVII in a completely different way. :cool: :cool: :cool:
| Jean Thibodeau wrote: |
| Very good articles. :cool:
QUOTE: " While some are said to display excellent handling characteristics, others seem to be designed to damage and crack armour, much like an axe or warhammer. " Interesting as well as the fact that cutting ability is surprisingly good against soft target. Against plate the blade would seem to be able to function like a sharpened bar of steel or a mace with a single sharpened flange: The most interesting thing to me is that adds a different way of looking at the use of this king of blade as mainly a thrusting weapon. The forward balance of some of the heavier examples would give type XVII that smashing concussive quality that other thrusting types with balance much closer to the guard would have to depend mostly on the thrust: So these type XVII give you an extra option of being a sword and a blunt force trauma weapon. Well, this is the first time I've read this interpretation ( Or if I have before it didn't register. ) , at the very least this small phrase make me see the type XVII in a completely different way. :cool: :cool: :cool: |
Jean,
Please keep in mind that the quote about the Sempach doing well against light targets describes one example of a sword of Type XVII, not them all. Some will well have more or less acute edge angles, making them more or less chisel/axe-like than the Sempach. Some will be better cutters, some will be more percussive in nature. Not all will be both. :)
The Sempach did very well against soft targets, as well as the Regent. Against harder targets (pumpkins), it did less well, as I expected. The thick cross-section inhibits cutting in some ways. I wouldn't say the Sempach is designed like an axe or warhammer as much as some others of the Type might be.
| Chad Arnow wrote: |
|
Jean, Please keep in mind that the quote about the Sempach doing well against light targets describes one example of a sword of Type XVII, not them all. Some will well have more or less acute edge angles, making them more or less chisel/axe-like than the Sempach. Some will be better cutters, some will be more percussive in nature. Not all will be both. :) The Sempach did very well against soft targets, as well as the Regent. Against harder targets (pumpkins), it did less well, as I expected. The thick cross-section inhibits cutting in some ways. I wouldn't say the Sempach is designed like an axe or warhammer as much as some others of the Type might be. |
Thanks for the nuances: So, some would be better cutters and some might be better concussive implements. ;)
One point though, being a soso cutter against hard targets may not be that important as this is when the blunt instrument, mace / axe like nature does the damage even if the actual cutting is minimal: If you opponent is neutralized, exactly by which mechanism doesn't really matter. :!: If you break an arm it's almost as good as chopping it off. :p
Oh, and then you can just finish him off with the point of your sword or " Rondel Dagger ". ( O.K. I'm obsessed with those at the moment, couldn't resist. :p :lol: ) Or, get a nice ransom that you might have missed on if the cut had been more efficient. :?:
| Jean Thibodeau wrote: |
|
Thanks for the nuances: So, some would be better cutters and some might be better concussive implements. ;) One point though, being a soso cutter against hard targets may not be that important as this is when the blunt instrument, mace / axe like nature does the damage even if the actual cutting is minimal: If you opponent is neutralized, exactly by which mechanism doesn't really matter. :!: If you break an arm it's almost as good as chopping it off. :p Or, get a nice ransom that you might have missed on if the cut had been more efficient. :?: |
There is always variety within a type. Most Type XVII's are pretty long, but some are short, like an example in the Wallace Collection and the sword in the St. George illustration. Some have very narrow, rapier- or estoc-esque blades while some are more "sword-like." Some balance way out the blade, some don't. Etc., etc. :) Since swords of this type appear in the thick of the transition from mail to plate and die out in the mid-5th century when full plate is in swing among the nobility, there will naturally be some variation I suppose.
And we do know that ransoming was big business back then, though there are some notable examples of "valuable" prisoners being killed in battle or after capture. Fortunes were made off looting and ransoming. So, killing a well-armoured opponent may have been less the goal than disabling/disarming, etc. them in many cases.
Gotta add to the kudos for your articles, Chad. It's nice to see the Oakeshott series completed, and the timing's great too -- it was only yesterday that I came to check out the info on the XVII's, only to realize there wasn't one yet!
I also really love the "A Visitor's Experience" series. Too bad you couldn't take any photos. Oh well -- might be going to London this summer anyway, so I'll have to make sure I make the trip.
Again, great articles, Chad, and thanks for the (always good) updates, Nathan.
I also really love the "A Visitor's Experience" series. Too bad you couldn't take any photos. Oh well -- might be going to London this summer anyway, so I'll have to make sure I make the trip.
Again, great articles, Chad, and thanks for the (always good) updates, Nathan.
Well it is certainly always nice to see updates to the site. Especially with articles as informative as these new additions. Thanks for the great information in continuation with the Oakshott series of classifications. I especially liked the article on the visit to the Wallace collection. As I will find it hard to make the trek there myself, I am always appreciative of insight into some of the beautiful history that is out there for study and enjoyment. Keep up the good work, Chad!
Matthew and Matt,
Thanks! It's nice to know these articles are appreciated. :)
I wish I could have taken photos at the Wallace Collection, too, but it's a very strict policy that prohibits that. Oh well. I guess everyone will have to make a visit or at least buy the catalogues. :)
Many of the highlights of their collection appear in English-language works. Oakeshott talks a lot about examples from their collection (and pcictures a good number of them) and many appear in the Edge/Paddock Arms & Armor of the Medieval Knight. Many other books have info, too.
Thanks! It's nice to know these articles are appreciated. :)
I wish I could have taken photos at the Wallace Collection, too, but it's a very strict policy that prohibits that. Oh well. I guess everyone will have to make a visit or at least buy the catalogues. :)
Many of the highlights of their collection appear in English-language works. Oakeshott talks a lot about examples from their collection (and pcictures a good number of them) and many appear in the Edge/Paddock Arms & Armor of the Medieval Knight. Many other books have info, too.
Chad:
I just wanted to add one more thank you from an appreciative reader and sword enthusiast. The entire spot light series is outstanding and your efforts and those of the others working at myArmoury do not go unnoticed. Thanks again and keep up the good work. Also, thanks again for the information you shared with me last week on pricing, etc. in connection with my efforts to put together a round table. :)
Best regards,
Bill
I just wanted to add one more thank you from an appreciative reader and sword enthusiast. The entire spot light series is outstanding and your efforts and those of the others working at myArmoury do not go unnoticed. Thanks again and keep up the good work. Also, thanks again for the information you shared with me last week on pricing, etc. in connection with my efforts to put together a round table. :)
Best regards,
Bill
| Bill Strait wrote: |
| Chad:
I just wanted to add one more thank you from an appreciative reader and sword enthusiast. The entire spot light series is outstanding and your efforts and those of the others working at myArmoury do not go unnoticed. Thanks again and keep up the good work. Also, thanks again for the information you shared with me last week on pricing, etc. in connection with my efforts to put together a round table. :) Best regards, Bill |
Bill,
You're most welcome. I have a lot of fun doing these articles; I suspect our other authors do, too. :) The spotlight series will continue with plenty of other topics, even though we're done with the Oakeshott sword types. We have many, many, many very cool things coming up outside the spotlight series, too. Stay tuned!
Great work as always Chad! I especially loved your article on the Type XVII. Funny, it seems that type is one that people either love it or hate it. :confused: They kinda remind me of a XVa with a fuller. :p I'll pick up a Landgraf one day.
Great article on the Wallace Collection as well. Too bad they won't let you take pics; maybe it's flash photography they're worried about. I remember when I visited the Louvre in 1996, they wouldn't let people take pictures of the Mona Lisa. Oh well, keep up the great work! -Ted
Great article on the Wallace Collection as well. Too bad they won't let you take pics; maybe it's flash photography they're worried about. I remember when I visited the Louvre in 1996, they wouldn't let people take pictures of the Mona Lisa. Oh well, keep up the great work! -Ted
| Edward Hitchens wrote: |
| Great work as always Chad! I especially loved your article on the Type XVII. Funny, it seems that type is one that people either love it or hate it. :confused: They kinda remind me of a XVa with a fuller. :p I'll pick up a Landgraf one day.
Great article on the Wallace Collection as well. Too bad they won't let you take pics; maybe it's flash photography they're worried about. I remember when I visited the Louvre in 1996, they wouldn't let people take pictures of the Mona Lisa. Oh well, keep up the great work! -Ted |
Thanks, Ted! With the Wallace it's photos of any kind that are prohibited. Some museums allow non-flash, non-tripod photography, but the Wallace Collection is adamant about none at all. Pity.
| Chad Arnow wrote: | ||
Thanks, Ted! With the Wallace it's photos of any kind that are prohibited. Some museums allow non-flash, non-tripod photography, but the Wallace Collection is adamant about none at all. Pity. |
There is one exception to this. They will let you take pictures of yourself or your buddy in the armour that they have there for "try-on" purposes. I don't think my buddy Patrick would take too kindly to a public display of himself in a sallet (it definately did not fit him), but here's a piture of me in the armour that they had available (it's more than a little back-lit, sorry):
-Grey
P.S. Glasses with a sallet and a necktie with a brigandine. I could start a new fashion trend... :wtf:
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| Greyson Brown wrote: |
| There is one exception to this. They will let you take pictures of yourself or your buddy in the armour that they have there for "try-on" purposes. I don't think my buddy Patrick would take too kindly to a public display of himself in a sallet (it definately did not fit him), but here's a piture of me in the armour that they had available (it's more than a little back-lit, sorry):
-Grey P.S. Glasses with a sallet and a necktie with a brigandine. I could start a new fashion trend... :wtf: |
When I was there that stuff was in a special room they had set up downstairs. No photos were allowed in the museum proper. In fact, they were very strict about making sure you didn't take camera bags or things that looked like camera bags past the coat-check/visitor info desks. The docents throughout the museum also kept a watchful eye. :)
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