Hello!

I'm interested lately in cheires, (hands/arms translated in ancient Greek), which was a type of armguard used by Persians, Parthians, Seleucid Greeks, Roman, Kushan and other people in Asia from Antiquity until early Medieval times.

I still don't understand the construction of such armor, since the finds are limited.

I'm kindly asking for pictures and information about archaeological finds, paintings, reliefs and sculpture or any other kind of material evidence of the construction and the way they were worn.

Thanks a lot in advance!
-Kostas.

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In Latin we call that a manica, and it's a pretty simple laminated or segmented construction. Here's mine:

https://www.larp.com/legioxx/manica.html

They can be iron or copper alloy. Many of the Roman examples have a small plate or two to cover the back of the hand, apparently riveted not articulated.

Another excellent page:

http://www.romanarmy.net/manica.shtml

Does that get you started?

Matthew

Hello!

Thank you SO much! Yes, this helps very much! We use the word in Greek (since Roman times) for sleeve and rubber tube.

Roman, Czirik Rabat and Khalchayan finds show constructions of half cylinder (covering only the extensor muscle groups of the arm.

On the first picture I posted and on this small statue we see Seleucid arm guard that cover circumflex the arms and legs.

Are there any finds that show similar style of guards?

Thank you!

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Yeah, as Dan says, it may not be possible to make a completely tubular segmented piece like that. Though I don't know if anyone has tried! Of course, on that little figurine, we're only seeing one side, and many believe the manica was worn on the inside of the arm like that, so that the back, which we can't see, was uncovered.

BUT, again as Dan says, we may not even be looking at armor, there, only clothing. Quilted or just striped, possibly? If there were more archeology to back up those leg and foot coverings, that would help, but...

Matthew

Thank you so much all for your replies!

https://www.apollo-magazine.com/the-art-of-power-in-ancient-pergamon/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/carolemage/8404206319

http://grifterrec.rasmir.com/kushan/heraios.html

https://soundcloud.com/metmuseum/marble-balustrade-reliefs-with-military-spoils-from-the-sanctuary-of-athena

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cataphract#/media/File:Ardachir_relief_Firuzabad_1.jpg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cataphract#/media/File:Tabriz_Sasanian_Plate_3.jpg

Here are some links that show tubular manicae. Although there are not known to me archaeological finds of tubular manicae, it's important to note that Greeks have always been very precise in illustrating weapons, when correlated with archaeological finds.

Quote:

BUT, again as Dan says, we may not even be looking at armor, there, only clothing. Quilted or just striped, possibly? If there were more archeology to back up those leg and foot coverings, that would help, but... Yes, it's possible, but we have finds of manicae which are metallic! Quote: You can't make armour that looks like that; even with Renaissance-era sliding rivets. You have to have segmented expansions in the back while simultaneously having segmented compressions in the front. What if metallic plates are not riveted, but sewed on leather sleeve or cloth? Please note the second link that again comes from the balustrade of Athena Altar in Pergamon. The armguard seems to be formed by metal strip that is spiral. This could work similarly to 'goose arm" tubes we usually have as shower tubes. This is getting very nice, please keep helping! Many thanks! -Kostas.

I'm sure you could make it work with sliding leathers, that is how Ian does it with his skirt of plates which is essentially the same thing. Geting it to work properly would probably take a while and be quite costly though, nobody has ever made one like that as far as I'm aware so you'd have to trial and error your way there using quite expensive materials.

Please note I'm not trying to forge/ create one.

I'm just trying to gather information based on finds and not reports, so that I know more about this armor.

Only in rare cases we see Greeks defending the arms and legs. Helmets with masks is another rarity, but those could be an evolution of Phrygian Helmet chick guards. Did the Seleucid introduce this kind of helmet in a heavy cavalry culture like Persian, Skythian, Parthian and Kushan, or they just adapted their own armor to the needs of the region?

Was the style of their armor different than the style of the people of central Asia? Rabat armor seems to have semi tubular manicae and I think it's the earliest find of manicae we have.