I’m interested in finding historical depictions of torse and mantling on mid-fourteenth century bascinets in England / France. A substantial search of Manuscript Miniatures has not yielded results.
My goal is to spiff up my bascinet for the field and lists, and to do it correctly. I’m aware of many torse and mantling depictions on great helms and jousting helms, but images on bascinets seem to be very rare. Does anyone have images to share or a recommendation for further research?
Thank you in advance,
Scott
It is a "SCAdianism" to put torse and mantling on a 14thC bascinet. That stuff belongs on the helm, which has to go over the bascinet in that period.
This was my fear. :(
I'm still open to suggestions if anyone thinks there is even one historical depiction of a bascinet with torse and mantling. :\
I'm still open to suggestions if anyone thinks there is even one historical depiction of a bascinet with torse and mantling. :\
15thC grand bascinet... no problem.
Look Scott, its a 30+ year old SCAdianism... if you like it, put one on for SCA use. Take it off for LH demos. No biggie.
Look Scott, its a 30+ year old SCAdianism... if you like it, put one on for SCA use. Take it off for LH demos. No biggie.
| Scott Hrouda wrote: |
| This was my fear. :(
I'm still open to suggestions if anyone thinks there is even one historical depiction of a bascinet with torse and mantling. :\ |
Here's the best I can do. I found this passage from Arms and Armor of the Medieval Knight by David Edge and John Miles Paddock (ISBN 0-517-10319-2) while reading today.
| Quote: |
| "From about 1300 the basinet was also decorated more or less elaborately, and contemporary accounts speak of gold, pearls and precious stones encrusting these. From this time we read of basinets being decorated by a roll of cloth or torse; this was often richly embellished and was commonly jewelled, as one can see on the monument of Thomas, eighth Lord Berkeley (d 1361) in Berkeley Church, Gloucestershire, and on the brass of Lord Willoughby d'Eresby (d c 1390) at Spilsby, Linconshire" (Edge and Paddock 83). |
I found some photos (not the best admittedly, but clearly have decoration on their bascinets) from this person's photostream on flickr.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/52219527@N00/515...otostream/
John Willoughby, 3rd Baron Willoughby d'Eresby
[ Linked Image ]
Robert Willoughby, 4th Baron Willoughby d'Eresby
[ Linked Image ]
William Willoughby, 5th Baron Willoughby d'Eresby
[ Linked Image ]
Hope this helps some...
Not a torse, a chaplet there. Kind of a plaque belt for the bascinet. Close from a dozen yards but it doesn't interfere with wearing a helm. Padded torse - like ringss were added to bascinets as part of the suspension system but somehow they never seem to appear with a torse in effigies or illuminations. If they were common, as in SCA common.... why don't we find them? Seriously, I like the look & I tried to document it, as did others with better research skills than I.
Nada. :(
Nada. :(
Do these look like torses on the guy in the middle and in the tower? http://manuscriptminiatures.com/francais-1584/2408/
Looks like a scarf or sash of cloth tied on the protagonist's helmets to draw the eye to them. Without knowing the context the illustration supports, I couldn't suggest why. It does not look like the padded donut and mini flag so commonly stuck on bascinets at SCAdian and re-enactment events.
Love the "face" shield on the tower protagonist. Awesome. :cool:
Love the "face" shield on the tower protagonist. Awesome. :cool:
I wasn't sure if these were torses or tokens. Scott said he wanted to spiff up his bascinet and I thought these might be something.
| Len Parker wrote: |
| I wasn't sure if these were torses or tokens. Scott said he wanted to spiff up his bascinet and I thought these might be something. |
Thank you, I missed that during my search. I do belive it's something. Maybe a simple scarf would be more appropriate that a full torse and mantling.
Page 1 of 1
You cannot post new topics in this forumYou cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
All contents © Copyright 2003-2006 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Full-featured Version of the forum
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Full-featured Version of the forum