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Modern Hourglass mitten gauntlets
Some of the armourers make them, some of reenactors use such gauntlets - i`ts practical, they give a lot of protection... but is there any proof that "hourglass mitten gauntlets" did exist? Some say that hourglass mittens were born in the beggining of XV century, as a "child" of hourglass finger gauntlets evolution..., but I haven`t seen an evidence for that... Is there an effigy, illumination, or any archeological sign from the beginning of XV cent, that is a proof for those, who believe in such gauntlets?
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Modern Hourglass mitten gauntlets
[ Linked Image ]
Attachment: 121.66 KBModern Hourglass mitten gauntlets
| Maciej Cierkosz wrote: |
| Some of the armourers make them, some of reenactors use such gauntlets - i`ts practical, they give a lot of protection... but is there any proof that "hourglass mitten gauntlets" did exist? Some say that hourglass mittens were born in the beggining of XV century, as a "child" of hourglass finger gauntlets evolution..., but I haven`t seen an evidence for that... Is there an effigy, illumination, or any archeological sign from the beginning of XV cent, that is a proof for those, who believe in such gauntlets? |
Maciej,
A type of mitten gauntlet did indeed arise out of the hourglass gauntlet by the early-mid 15th century. However, many of these 15th century mitten gauntlets show a flared cuff, either rounded or leaf-shaped. Basically, instead of the straight cuff edge of the earlier late 14th century hourglass gauntlets, the cuff of the mitten gauntlets had a tendency to be elongated along the upper edge. I think the cuffs were often longer, too. Certainly, though, it could be argued that these mitten gauntlets did evolve from the earlier fingered hourglass gauntlets.
There is a gauntlet from Churburg, dated to circa 1420, that could be mid-way between the earlier hourglass and the later mitten gauntlet. It has a broad plate over the back of the hand and part of the fingers, and an hourglass-shaped cuff. It has fingers of small plates rivetted to a covering. It's similar to the mitten gauntlet of circa 1440 I show below, which probably had similar plated fingers at one time.
The ones that you posted, with the multiple finger lames, may be more appropriate for the 16th century rather than the early 15th. Many of the 15th century mitten gauntlets I've seen photos of have fewer lames for the fingers. Of course, there are differences between gauntlets made in the German style, and those made in the Italian style.
Here's what Claude Blair says regarding the development of the mitten gauntlet in his work European Armour Circa 1066 to Circa 1700 (the drawings below are from the back of Blair's book):
| Claude Blair wrote: |
|
(15th century Italian Gauntlets) During the 1430's the fingered gauntlets of the type found on the Churburg armour developed into mittens. This was effected by prolonging the metacarpal plates to the tips of the fingers. The right gauntlet was usually articulated once at the wrist and twice over the fingers, while the left one, which for obvious reasons did not have to be so flexible, was articulated once over the middle of the fingers. At the same time the backs of the cuffs were prolonged up the forearms; these prolongations were at first rounded but during the '40's grew gradually longer and more pointed until by c, 1450 they had become almost leaf-shaped and had extended to just below the couters. This form remained in use until the end of the century. (15th century German Gauntlets) ...the gauntlets at first followed more or less the same lines of development in Germany as in Italy, except that they always seem to have remained symmetrical and the cuffs did not become pointed. The hour-glass form remained in use until c. 1430 but by c. 1425 a new type had already been developed from it by extending the metacarpal plate to the tips of the fingers and the back of the cuff to nearly halfway up the forearm. This new gauntlet protected the backs and sides of the hand and had a narrow strip across the inside of the wrist. The whole of the main plate was often made in one piece. It had a slight bend along the line of the knuckles and was embossed to the shape of the base of the thumb, the thumb itself being protected by small laminations rivetted to a leather base; similar plates or mail seem only occasionally to be worn over the fingers. On a pair of contemporary gauntlets at Churburg, there is a join, allowing for slight movement at the wrist. On a gauntlet of c. 1440 for the right hand in the Museum fur Deutsche Geschichte, Berlin, the finger-lame is articulated twice, while on a pair of gauntlets of c. 1450-60 by Konrad Treytz the Elder of Innsbruck the finger lame is articulated once only, along the line of the knuckles. All these gauntlets have had the lining-gloves partially stitched in -place and partially held by a strap across the fingers. Mitten-gauntlets of the type described above remained in general use until c. 1460 although they began to be supplanted by a new form in the 1450's. This new form was elongated and narrow at the wrist, where it was embossed over the ulna, and had a separate thumb-piece attached by a hinge; the metacarpal and finger-defences, each composed of several narrow articulations, were linked by an embossed knuckle-plate. During the period c. 1460-50 the cuff was usually very sharply pointed and the back of the gauntlet decorated with radiating embossed ribs; the lines of demarcation between the fingers were similarly indicated with V-section flutes. During the same period fingered gauntlets came back into fashion for a short time, although they never ousted the mitten...During the last decade of the century a short cuff with a straight edge and with the inner plate secured by the means of a pin-catch, came into fashion and by c. 1500 had supplanted the other form. |
Note the drawings and photo below. The mitten gauntlet of circa 1440, is South German, from Churburg. The mitten gauntlet of circa 1500-10 is North Italian, from the Royal Armouries. The mitten gauntlet of circa 1520 is South German, in the "Maximilian" style, from the collection of H.R.H. the Duke of Brunswick.
I hope this helped!
Attachment: 42.85 KB
Mitten Gauntlets 15th-16th centuries.
Yes, It helped a lot! Thank You Richard very much for a rich answer. It means that one of members from my reenactment group bought bad gauntlets (we reenact combatants from end od XIV and beginning of XV century)... Those second gauntlets posted by me are His new ones...:/
I`ve found something close to those mittens, but with elonged, modified cuff (about which You`ve wrote), and, altough those knights died in the beginning of XV century, featured sculpcure comes from the middle of these age...
http://www.freha.pl/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=518
Now I`m pretty sure that knights in the first years XV cent. wore fingered hourglass gauntlets, sometimes with longer cuff, sometimes with additional plate placed in front of fingers, or with strange, leather, or chainmail fingers... but not mittens:)
By the way I have an other Question. It`s about finger guards... Were they used in the XIV century, or in the beginning of XV? I saw them on some paintings from about 1450 and i know that they were used on germant tournaments in the second half of XV century, but is there any proof that they were used earlier? Some of armourers, like "Mercenaries Tailor" make them, and advice to use them with wisby style, or hourglass gauntlets... Is it proper to use such, when reenacting late XIV century:/?
http://www.freha.pl/index.php?act=attach&...mp;id=4693
I`ve found something close to those mittens, but with elonged, modified cuff (about which You`ve wrote), and, altough those knights died in the beginning of XV century, featured sculpcure comes from the middle of these age...
http://www.freha.pl/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=518
Now I`m pretty sure that knights in the first years XV cent. wore fingered hourglass gauntlets, sometimes with longer cuff, sometimes with additional plate placed in front of fingers, or with strange, leather, or chainmail fingers... but not mittens:)
By the way I have an other Question. It`s about finger guards... Were they used in the XIV century, or in the beginning of XV? I saw them on some paintings from about 1450 and i know that they were used on germant tournaments in the second half of XV century, but is there any proof that they were used earlier? Some of armourers, like "Mercenaries Tailor" make them, and advice to use them with wisby style, or hourglass gauntlets... Is it proper to use such, when reenacting late XIV century:/?
http://www.freha.pl/index.php?act=attach&...mp;id=4693
Hello again!
Maciej,
I found a couple more drawings, originally from Claude Blair's European Armour Circa 1066 to Circa 1700, that may help you visualize the types of gauntlets in use in the early 15th and the later 15th century. The top gauntlet is a "developed" hourglass gauntlet, with a large metacarpal plate, but separate fingers. This is a gauntlet from Churburg, the one with the finger plates rivetted beneath a fabric cover. The bottom pair are gauntlets from the third quarter of the 15th century. They are from the Sanctuary of the Madonna delle Grazie, near Mantua. Note the pointed cuff and the different number of lames over the fingers for the right hand as opposed as that on the left.
I think the gauntlets of circa 1420 from Curburg may be more appropriate for the time period your group covers, although there was often a variety of styles in use. Hourglass gauntlets like those of Edward the Black Prince may also be appropriate.
I'm not sure about finger guards. I've seen disks on the back of the hand and the wrist in some depictions of late 15th century tournament armour, most notably in the armour depicted in Rene of Anjou's treatise on tournaments. I'm not sure if these were ever used on "field harness", armour used in battle. However, these may not be a bad concession to safety if your group actually spars. Medieval warriors were worried about losing body parts. Remember, some German gauntlets of this time period had mail fingers (a few like this, with metacarpal and wrist plates similar to the Churburg gauntlets of circa 1420, are shown on the effigies depicted in J. H. Hefner-Alteneck's Medieval Arms and Armor: A Pictorial Archive). This couldn't have given much protection against a crushing blow. However, you might want to be concerned about broken fingers as well. Finger guards can add an extra bit of protection to the fingers. Of course, some of the early 15th century gauntlets had a large metacarpal plate that covered a good portion of the fingers.
Those second gauntlets you posted aren't too bad, but the cuffs might look better if they were longer. I'm not sure if we can exactly pinpoint when mitten gauntlets first came into use. I guess it depends on precisely what years you are trying to portray; after all, Blair said they were in use by the 1430's.
I hope this helped!
Attachment: 16 KB
15th century gauntlets.
Maciej,
I found a couple more drawings, originally from Claude Blair's European Armour Circa 1066 to Circa 1700, that may help you visualize the types of gauntlets in use in the early 15th and the later 15th century. The top gauntlet is a "developed" hourglass gauntlet, with a large metacarpal plate, but separate fingers. This is a gauntlet from Churburg, the one with the finger plates rivetted beneath a fabric cover. The bottom pair are gauntlets from the third quarter of the 15th century. They are from the Sanctuary of the Madonna delle Grazie, near Mantua. Note the pointed cuff and the different number of lames over the fingers for the right hand as opposed as that on the left.
I think the gauntlets of circa 1420 from Curburg may be more appropriate for the time period your group covers, although there was often a variety of styles in use. Hourglass gauntlets like those of Edward the Black Prince may also be appropriate.
I'm not sure about finger guards. I've seen disks on the back of the hand and the wrist in some depictions of late 15th century tournament armour, most notably in the armour depicted in Rene of Anjou's treatise on tournaments. I'm not sure if these were ever used on "field harness", armour used in battle. However, these may not be a bad concession to safety if your group actually spars. Medieval warriors were worried about losing body parts. Remember, some German gauntlets of this time period had mail fingers (a few like this, with metacarpal and wrist plates similar to the Churburg gauntlets of circa 1420, are shown on the effigies depicted in J. H. Hefner-Alteneck's Medieval Arms and Armor: A Pictorial Archive). This couldn't have given much protection against a crushing blow. However, you might want to be concerned about broken fingers as well. Finger guards can add an extra bit of protection to the fingers. Of course, some of the early 15th century gauntlets had a large metacarpal plate that covered a good portion of the fingers.
Those second gauntlets you posted aren't too bad, but the cuffs might look better if they were longer. I'm not sure if we can exactly pinpoint when mitten gauntlets first came into use. I guess it depends on precisely what years you are trying to portray; after all, Blair said they were in use by the 1430's.
I hope this helped!
Attachment: 16 KB15th century gauntlets.
Here is the avant suit. I have seen it dated from 1440-1460.
http://www.living-history.no/images/E19396E1.jpg
It has the clearest form of mitten gauntlet I think for the mid part of the 15th century. There are pictures of men in what looks like mitten gauntlets from some of the chronicles but I could not find one that is clear enough. The left one is a reproduction and although very nice the original likely was more of a solid guantlet with perhaps one moving lame over the fingers.
The Royal Armouries has a few other pieces that could be used around the mid 15th as well.
AS for 14th century.
You ar looking for gauntlets like these
http://www.englishmonarchs.co.uk/prince_wales.html
Prince Edward's effigy (1376) with small sections over the fingers or scales most likely. I do not think mitten gauntlets are in use until sometime after 1410, 1420 in any great number.
I agree with Richard. Those gaunts are late perhaps late 15th century late, but later than 14th.
RPM
http://www.living-history.no/images/E19396E1.jpg
It has the clearest form of mitten gauntlet I think for the mid part of the 15th century. There are pictures of men in what looks like mitten gauntlets from some of the chronicles but I could not find one that is clear enough. The left one is a reproduction and although very nice the original likely was more of a solid guantlet with perhaps one moving lame over the fingers.
The Royal Armouries has a few other pieces that could be used around the mid 15th as well.
AS for 14th century.
You ar looking for gauntlets like these
http://www.englishmonarchs.co.uk/prince_wales.html
Prince Edward's effigy (1376) with small sections over the fingers or scales most likely. I do not think mitten gauntlets are in use until sometime after 1410, 1420 in any great number.
I agree with Richard. Those gaunts are late perhaps late 15th century late, but later than 14th.
RPM
Hello all!
I concur with Randall, gauntlets similar to those on the effigy of Edward the Black Prince, of so-called "hourglass" form, are more appropriate for the late fourteenth century. Hourglass gauntlets appear to have been in use into the early years of the fifteenth. Mitten gauntlets didn't appear until at least the second quarter of the fifteenth century. The avant harness is dated to about the middle of the fifteenth century. Below I've included a nice photo of the Black Prince's gauntlets off of his effigy. Note their form, which is similar, with some minor differences, to most of the gauntlets portrayed on late fourteenth and early fifteenth century English brasses.
I will attempt to list and describe some of the gauntlets shown on English brasses of that time. I gathered this information from a study of the excellent line drawings in Charles Henry Ashdown's European Arms & Armor. Unfortunately, the text is outdated, and the work concentrates on English armour, but it has a nice collection of line drawings of the brasses.
The brass of Sir Robert Swynborne, 1391, depicts the knight wearing hourglass gauntlets with a slight upwards flare to the upper part of the cuff. No prominently spiked gadlings are present, but other than that and the cuff flare, these are roughly similar to those shown on the Black Prince's effigy.
The brass of Sir John de Argentine, 1360, depicts the knight wearing hourglass gauntlets of a rather plain form. The cuffs are straight, with no upward point. There are multiple lames for each separate finger, more than seen on the Black Prince's effigy. The metacarpal-cuff plate only comes up to the knuckles, and doesn't seem to cover the fingers.
The brass of Sir John Wingfield, circa 1400, depicts the knight wearing hourglass gauntlets. These have knobbed knuckles over one segment of each of the separate fingers, and a decorative trim around the cuff. Otherwise, they are roughly similar to other hourglass gauntlets of the period.
The brass of Sir George Felbridge, 1400, depicts the knight wearing hourglass gauntlets. These are highly decorated examples of that form of gauntlet, with spiked knobs over two knuckle segments, a decorative trim around the wrist, and large plaques or oversized gadlings on the metacarpal plate. The cuffs are quite short, but they are still of hourglass form.
The brass of Sir William de Echingham, 1387, depicts the knight wearing hourglass gauntlets. The cuff is rather short, but it does have a decorative border around its edge. There appears to be one row of knobbed lames across the individual fingers.
The brass of a knight of the D'Eresby family, 1410, depicts the knight wearing hourglass gauntlets. There are spiked gadlings over the embossed knuckles on the metacarpal plate, and two ros of spiked segments along the separate fingers. The cuffs may be made separate from the metacarpal plates, since there is a strip along the wrist which may indicate such a construction. The cuffs bear a decorative trim.
The brass of Sir John de St. Quintin, 1397, depicts the knight wearing an interesting development of the hourglass gauntlet. It's somewhat similar in form to the gauntlet of circa 1420 from Churburg in that the metacarpal plate is broader than in other hourglass gauntlets and covers part of the fingers, although not as far as the Churburg gauntlet. The cuffs are rather short, and they appear even more so when compared to the metacarpal part of the plate. The individual fingers are protected by lames. The edge of the metacarpal and cuff plate is decorated with a broad, rich trim.
The brass of Sir Thomas Braunstone, 1401, depicts the knight wearing hourglass gauntlets with a slight point to the upper side of the cuffs. Otherwise, they are very similar to other hourglass gauntlets of the period.
The brass of Robert, Lord Ferrers of Chartley, 1407, depicts the lord in another interesting development of the hourglass gauntlet. The fingers still appear separate, with spikes or knobs across two rows of knuckles, but the cuffs are made of three separate lames.
The brass of Sir Thomas Swynborne, 1412, depicts the knight wearing a further development of the gauntlets seen on the Lord Ferrrers of Chartley brass. Sir Thomas wears gauntlets with cuffs of three separate lames which also exhibit a prominent flaring of the edge on the upward side. The metacarpal plate still comes to just at the base of the fingers, and the fingers appear to be separate.
The brass of a knight of 1410 in South Kelsey Church depicts the knight wearing gauntlets similar to those of the 1420 Churburg gauntlets. They are similar to typical hourglass gauntlets except that the metacarpal plate is elongated and broadened to cover part of the fingers. Here the metacarpal plate covers more of the fingers than those seen in the de St. Quintin brass of 1397. The fingers are clearly separate.
The brass of Sir Thomas de St. Quintin of circa 1420 depicts the knight wearing hourglass gauntlets of a rather plain form. The fingers are separate and bear at least two rows of knobbed plates over the knuckles.
The brass of Sir John Lysle, 1407, depicts the knight wearing yet another development of the hourglass gauntlet. The cuffs are slightly longer than previous gauntlets, although still with a straight edge. There are two small lames at the wrist, indicating that the metacarpal plate and the cuffs are separate. The fingers are separate, and bear two rows of spiked or knobbed segments.
The brass of Sir John de Leventhorpe, 1433, depicts the knight in similar gauntlets to those seen on the Lysle brass, but there are three lames at the wrist instead of just two. The cuffs are also slightly shorter than those seen on the Lysle brass, and there may be a slight upward flare of the edge.
The first mitten gauntlets shown in drawings in this book don't appear until the mid fifteenth century. The brass of Sir John de Harpedon is dated to 1457, although the knight is depicted in armour that is perhaps more than a generation old. Even if the armour dates to thirty years earlier, that would make the first appearance of mitten gauntlets around 1430. The bras depicts the knight wearing mitten gauntlets with two lames over the fingers of each hand. The cuffs are flared to a point along the upper edge.
The brass of Sir John Peryent the Younger, dated to 1450, depicts the knight wearing mitten gauntlets with four lames over the fingers of each hand. The cuffs again come to a point on the upper side.
The brass of Thomas de St. Quintin, 1445, depicts the armoured warrior wearing mitten gauntlets with three lames over the fingers of each hand. The cuffs come to a cusped point.
The brass of Walter Green of 1450 depicts the armoured warrior wearing mitten gauntlets with what appear to be three lames over the fingers of each hand. The cuffs again flare upward along the edge.
The brass of Sir Robert Staunton, 1458, again depicts the knight wearing mitten gauntlets. They seem very common by this point in time. There are four lames over the fingers of each hand. The cuffs flare on the upper side to a long and prominent point.
I hope this information was somewhat useful. However, keep in mind that the dates for the brasses only give a date by which the armour was in use, not the earliest date the armour could be in use. They are, at best, only a rough guide to dates. Many brasses, especially ones like the brass of Sir John de Harpedon of 1457 that may show the knight in old-fashioned armour, could have been made several years before the death of the knight. Still, it appears that hourglass gauntlets are more appropriate for the late fourteenth and very early fifteenth centuries.
By the way, Randall, the Gothic Eye site is back up. For anyone interested in images of period art depicting armour, it's worth taking a look at. Here's a link to the site:
http://www.gothiceye.com/
Maybe some of the images there will help Maciej on his quest for depictions of late fourteenth and early fifteenth century armour.
Stay safe!
Attachment: 17.15 KB
Black Prince effigy close-up showing gauntlets.
I concur with Randall, gauntlets similar to those on the effigy of Edward the Black Prince, of so-called "hourglass" form, are more appropriate for the late fourteenth century. Hourglass gauntlets appear to have been in use into the early years of the fifteenth. Mitten gauntlets didn't appear until at least the second quarter of the fifteenth century. The avant harness is dated to about the middle of the fifteenth century. Below I've included a nice photo of the Black Prince's gauntlets off of his effigy. Note their form, which is similar, with some minor differences, to most of the gauntlets portrayed on late fourteenth and early fifteenth century English brasses.
I will attempt to list and describe some of the gauntlets shown on English brasses of that time. I gathered this information from a study of the excellent line drawings in Charles Henry Ashdown's European Arms & Armor. Unfortunately, the text is outdated, and the work concentrates on English armour, but it has a nice collection of line drawings of the brasses.
The brass of Sir Robert Swynborne, 1391, depicts the knight wearing hourglass gauntlets with a slight upwards flare to the upper part of the cuff. No prominently spiked gadlings are present, but other than that and the cuff flare, these are roughly similar to those shown on the Black Prince's effigy.
The brass of Sir John de Argentine, 1360, depicts the knight wearing hourglass gauntlets of a rather plain form. The cuffs are straight, with no upward point. There are multiple lames for each separate finger, more than seen on the Black Prince's effigy. The metacarpal-cuff plate only comes up to the knuckles, and doesn't seem to cover the fingers.
The brass of Sir John Wingfield, circa 1400, depicts the knight wearing hourglass gauntlets. These have knobbed knuckles over one segment of each of the separate fingers, and a decorative trim around the cuff. Otherwise, they are roughly similar to other hourglass gauntlets of the period.
The brass of Sir George Felbridge, 1400, depicts the knight wearing hourglass gauntlets. These are highly decorated examples of that form of gauntlet, with spiked knobs over two knuckle segments, a decorative trim around the wrist, and large plaques or oversized gadlings on the metacarpal plate. The cuffs are quite short, but they are still of hourglass form.
The brass of Sir William de Echingham, 1387, depicts the knight wearing hourglass gauntlets. The cuff is rather short, but it does have a decorative border around its edge. There appears to be one row of knobbed lames across the individual fingers.
The brass of a knight of the D'Eresby family, 1410, depicts the knight wearing hourglass gauntlets. There are spiked gadlings over the embossed knuckles on the metacarpal plate, and two ros of spiked segments along the separate fingers. The cuffs may be made separate from the metacarpal plates, since there is a strip along the wrist which may indicate such a construction. The cuffs bear a decorative trim.
The brass of Sir John de St. Quintin, 1397, depicts the knight wearing an interesting development of the hourglass gauntlet. It's somewhat similar in form to the gauntlet of circa 1420 from Churburg in that the metacarpal plate is broader than in other hourglass gauntlets and covers part of the fingers, although not as far as the Churburg gauntlet. The cuffs are rather short, and they appear even more so when compared to the metacarpal part of the plate. The individual fingers are protected by lames. The edge of the metacarpal and cuff plate is decorated with a broad, rich trim.
The brass of Sir Thomas Braunstone, 1401, depicts the knight wearing hourglass gauntlets with a slight point to the upper side of the cuffs. Otherwise, they are very similar to other hourglass gauntlets of the period.
The brass of Robert, Lord Ferrers of Chartley, 1407, depicts the lord in another interesting development of the hourglass gauntlet. The fingers still appear separate, with spikes or knobs across two rows of knuckles, but the cuffs are made of three separate lames.
The brass of Sir Thomas Swynborne, 1412, depicts the knight wearing a further development of the gauntlets seen on the Lord Ferrrers of Chartley brass. Sir Thomas wears gauntlets with cuffs of three separate lames which also exhibit a prominent flaring of the edge on the upward side. The metacarpal plate still comes to just at the base of the fingers, and the fingers appear to be separate.
The brass of a knight of 1410 in South Kelsey Church depicts the knight wearing gauntlets similar to those of the 1420 Churburg gauntlets. They are similar to typical hourglass gauntlets except that the metacarpal plate is elongated and broadened to cover part of the fingers. Here the metacarpal plate covers more of the fingers than those seen in the de St. Quintin brass of 1397. The fingers are clearly separate.
The brass of Sir Thomas de St. Quintin of circa 1420 depicts the knight wearing hourglass gauntlets of a rather plain form. The fingers are separate and bear at least two rows of knobbed plates over the knuckles.
The brass of Sir John Lysle, 1407, depicts the knight wearing yet another development of the hourglass gauntlet. The cuffs are slightly longer than previous gauntlets, although still with a straight edge. There are two small lames at the wrist, indicating that the metacarpal plate and the cuffs are separate. The fingers are separate, and bear two rows of spiked or knobbed segments.
The brass of Sir John de Leventhorpe, 1433, depicts the knight in similar gauntlets to those seen on the Lysle brass, but there are three lames at the wrist instead of just two. The cuffs are also slightly shorter than those seen on the Lysle brass, and there may be a slight upward flare of the edge.
The first mitten gauntlets shown in drawings in this book don't appear until the mid fifteenth century. The brass of Sir John de Harpedon is dated to 1457, although the knight is depicted in armour that is perhaps more than a generation old. Even if the armour dates to thirty years earlier, that would make the first appearance of mitten gauntlets around 1430. The bras depicts the knight wearing mitten gauntlets with two lames over the fingers of each hand. The cuffs are flared to a point along the upper edge.
The brass of Sir John Peryent the Younger, dated to 1450, depicts the knight wearing mitten gauntlets with four lames over the fingers of each hand. The cuffs again come to a point on the upper side.
The brass of Thomas de St. Quintin, 1445, depicts the armoured warrior wearing mitten gauntlets with three lames over the fingers of each hand. The cuffs come to a cusped point.
The brass of Walter Green of 1450 depicts the armoured warrior wearing mitten gauntlets with what appear to be three lames over the fingers of each hand. The cuffs again flare upward along the edge.
The brass of Sir Robert Staunton, 1458, again depicts the knight wearing mitten gauntlets. They seem very common by this point in time. There are four lames over the fingers of each hand. The cuffs flare on the upper side to a long and prominent point.
I hope this information was somewhat useful. However, keep in mind that the dates for the brasses only give a date by which the armour was in use, not the earliest date the armour could be in use. They are, at best, only a rough guide to dates. Many brasses, especially ones like the brass of Sir John de Harpedon of 1457 that may show the knight in old-fashioned armour, could have been made several years before the death of the knight. Still, it appears that hourglass gauntlets are more appropriate for the late fourteenth and very early fifteenth centuries.
By the way, Randall, the Gothic Eye site is back up. For anyone interested in images of period art depicting armour, it's worth taking a look at. Here's a link to the site:
http://www.gothiceye.com/
Maybe some of the images there will help Maciej on his quest for depictions of late fourteenth and early fifteenth century armour.
Stay safe!
Attachment: 17.15 KBBlack Prince effigy close-up showing gauntlets.
Last edited by Richard Fay on Tue 06 Feb, 2007 10:15 am; edited 1 time in total
Hello again!
Out of curiosity, I actually took a look at the Gothic Eye site and perused their images of English knightly brasses and effigies of the late fourteenth and early fifteenth centuries. I encountered two images of circa 1435 that depicted knights wearing mitten gauntlets.
One image is a drawing of the effigy of John Fitzalan, Earl of Arundel, who died in 1435. The earl wears mitten gauntlets with two or three lames over the fingers of each hand. The fingers may be protected by overlapping lames on each finger beneath the large lames. This was sometimes done with these mitten gauntlets. The cuffs, as seems typical of mitten gauntlets of this time period, flare to a leaf-shape. The cuff and wrist of the left hand appears to be protected by an extra plate.
The other image is a drawing of the brass of Roger Elmebrygge, who again died in 1435. This knight wears mitten gauntlets with two or three lames over the fingers of each hand (the images on the Gothic Eye site are a bit small to make out all details). The cuffs are shorter than those seen on the Earl of Arundel's effigy, but they also flare to a leaf-shape on the upper side.
The dates of these effigies match what Blair said about the hourglass gauntlets developing into mitten gauntlets by the 1430's. Mitten gauntlets appear to be appropriate for the second quarter of the fifteenth century (1425-1450), but it may be a stretch considering them appropriate for the first quarter (1400-1425).
By the way, the Gothic Eye site has many images of the brasses I discussed in my previous post, such as Sir John Leventhorpe, Sir Thomas de Saint Quintin, and Sir Robert Staunton.
Stay safe!
Out of curiosity, I actually took a look at the Gothic Eye site and perused their images of English knightly brasses and effigies of the late fourteenth and early fifteenth centuries. I encountered two images of circa 1435 that depicted knights wearing mitten gauntlets.
One image is a drawing of the effigy of John Fitzalan, Earl of Arundel, who died in 1435. The earl wears mitten gauntlets with two or three lames over the fingers of each hand. The fingers may be protected by overlapping lames on each finger beneath the large lames. This was sometimes done with these mitten gauntlets. The cuffs, as seems typical of mitten gauntlets of this time period, flare to a leaf-shape. The cuff and wrist of the left hand appears to be protected by an extra plate.
The other image is a drawing of the brass of Roger Elmebrygge, who again died in 1435. This knight wears mitten gauntlets with two or three lames over the fingers of each hand (the images on the Gothic Eye site are a bit small to make out all details). The cuffs are shorter than those seen on the Earl of Arundel's effigy, but they also flare to a leaf-shape on the upper side.
The dates of these effigies match what Blair said about the hourglass gauntlets developing into mitten gauntlets by the 1430's. Mitten gauntlets appear to be appropriate for the second quarter of the fifteenth century (1425-1450), but it may be a stretch considering them appropriate for the first quarter (1400-1425).
By the way, the Gothic Eye site has many images of the brasses I discussed in my previous post, such as Sir John Leventhorpe, Sir Thomas de Saint Quintin, and Sir Robert Staunton.
Stay safe!
Hi All!
:D I`ve been gone for a few days vacation, now I`m back, and what a pleasant surprise... Thank You Richard for a lot of valuable information!
Now I`m sure that those "Hourglass mitten gauntlets" need to be replaced, our group reenacts period from 1370 to 1420... Luckily for my friend, such gauntlets are allowed on nearly all polish reenactment events, including Grunwald 1410 (a.k.a Tannenberg), so in this season He`ll surely use them.
As for evolution of gauntlets - I`ve found a sketch of demi gauntlets dated 1410-1420, based on a scuplture in St. Marie Magdalene church, Breslau, Poland. They`re similar to those crude Churburg gauntlets, You`ve shown a few posts above. They, together with those Milanese gauntlet can be a "missing link" between hourglass and mitten gauntlets. But enough of it... You
Richard, said nearly everything what could be said about this topic and fully answered my question. Yhank You one more more time!
Gothic Eye is a wonderful site, I recommend also gallery from Fiore Dei Liberi, there are some effigies which are missing in Gothic Eye. Take a look there if You`re interested:
http://www.fioredeiliberi.org/gallery2/main.p...;g2_page=1
I wouldn`t be myself if i hadn`t ask one more question... My friend, armourer, tries to reconstruct hourglass gauntlets from Bargello
[ Linked Image ]
There`s only one problem for Him - He doesn`t know what exactly is written on the cuff... On internet there can be found only one photo of those gauntlets, with only part of phrase... Maybe You have some other view of them, or an information about these inscription...
Attachment: 1.89 KB
sketch of demi gauntlets dated 1410-1420 (rather 1420), based on a scuplture in St. Marie Magdalene church, Breslau, Poland
Attachment: 114.35 KB
Interesting Mitten Gauntlets [ Download ]
:D I`ve been gone for a few days vacation, now I`m back, and what a pleasant surprise... Thank You Richard for a lot of valuable information!
Now I`m sure that those "Hourglass mitten gauntlets" need to be replaced, our group reenacts period from 1370 to 1420... Luckily for my friend, such gauntlets are allowed on nearly all polish reenactment events, including Grunwald 1410 (a.k.a Tannenberg), so in this season He`ll surely use them.
As for evolution of gauntlets - I`ve found a sketch of demi gauntlets dated 1410-1420, based on a scuplture in St. Marie Magdalene church, Breslau, Poland. They`re similar to those crude Churburg gauntlets, You`ve shown a few posts above. They, together with those Milanese gauntlet can be a "missing link" between hourglass and mitten gauntlets. But enough of it... You
Richard, said nearly everything what could be said about this topic and fully answered my question. Yhank You one more more time!
Gothic Eye is a wonderful site, I recommend also gallery from Fiore Dei Liberi, there are some effigies which are missing in Gothic Eye. Take a look there if You`re interested:
http://www.fioredeiliberi.org/gallery2/main.p...;g2_page=1
I wouldn`t be myself if i hadn`t ask one more question... My friend, armourer, tries to reconstruct hourglass gauntlets from Bargello
[ Linked Image ]
There`s only one problem for Him - He doesn`t know what exactly is written on the cuff... On internet there can be found only one photo of those gauntlets, with only part of phrase... Maybe You have some other view of them, or an information about these inscription...
Attachment: 1.89 KBsketch of demi gauntlets dated 1410-1420 (rather 1420), based on a scuplture in St. Marie Magdalene church, Breslau, Poland
Attachment: 114.35 KBInteresting Mitten Gauntlets [ Download ]
Hi Maciej!
I'm glad I could be of help. I wish I knew what it said on the cuff-metacarpal plate of the Bargello gauntlet, but I don't. That information is often sorely lacking in books about the subject. The photo of that particular gauntlet that I found in Mediaeval Arms and Armour by Francesco Rossi is the same view as the image you posted, so that's no help either.
There are other styles of gauntlets that are off-shoots of the hourglass gauntlet that may be approriate for your group. I mentioned some of these in my descriptions, but they are worth a photo as well. What do you think of these gauntlets with laminated cuffs, seen on the brass of Richard II's standard bearer (circa 1417)?
By the way, I'm sure more could be said about the topic. I'm just a book worm who loves to share what he reads. There's bound to be others who could contribute more and different information.
Attachment: 77.38 KB
Brass of Sir Symon Felbrygge, Richard II's standard-bearer, circa 1417.
I'm glad I could be of help. I wish I knew what it said on the cuff-metacarpal plate of the Bargello gauntlet, but I don't. That information is often sorely lacking in books about the subject. The photo of that particular gauntlet that I found in Mediaeval Arms and Armour by Francesco Rossi is the same view as the image you posted, so that's no help either.
There are other styles of gauntlets that are off-shoots of the hourglass gauntlet that may be approriate for your group. I mentioned some of these in my descriptions, but they are worth a photo as well. What do you think of these gauntlets with laminated cuffs, seen on the brass of Richard II's standard bearer (circa 1417)?
By the way, I'm sure more could be said about the topic. I'm just a book worm who loves to share what he reads. There's bound to be others who could contribute more and different information.
Attachment: 77.38 KBBrass of Sir Symon Felbrygge, Richard II's standard-bearer, circa 1417.
Hello all!
Good news, Maciej! :)
I just received a book today that has a description of what phrase is engraved on the brass strip on the cuffs of the gauntlets from Bargello. It apparently says "Jesus autem transiens per medium illorum ibat", which is a verse from St. Luke's gospel. This information was found in Color Treasury of Arms & Armor, translated from the Italian and with an introduction by Aldo G. Cimarelli.
I hope this helps! :)
Stay safe!
| Maciej Cierkosz wrote: |
|
I wouldn`t be myself if i hadn`t ask one more question... My friend, armourer, tries to reconstruct hourglass gauntlets from Bargello There`s only one problem for Him - He doesn`t know what exactly is written on the cuff... On internet there can be found only one photo of those gauntlets, with only part of phrase... Maybe You have some other view of them, or an information about these inscription... |
Good news, Maciej! :)
I just received a book today that has a description of what phrase is engraved on the brass strip on the cuffs of the gauntlets from Bargello. It apparently says "Jesus autem transiens per medium illorum ibat", which is a verse from St. Luke's gospel. This information was found in Color Treasury of Arms & Armor, translated from the Italian and with an introduction by Aldo G. Cimarelli.
I hope this helps! :)
Stay safe!
Indeed, very good news:)!
Thank You Very Much! I`ve been searching for it in polish sources, e-mailed to italian museum with no answer...
Thanks to You now My fellow armourer can make for a brilliant pair of Borgello Gauntlets for me:D! I`ll be waiting for them to april, but They will be perfect:)!
About Mitten gauntlets posted on the beginning - I`ve talked about them with their maker, he showed me his inspiration.
[ Linked Image ]
You had right, they`re from XVI century, altough they have some similarities with transitional age gauntlets.
Thank You Very Much! I`ve been searching for it in polish sources, e-mailed to italian museum with no answer...
Thanks to You now My fellow armourer can make for a brilliant pair of Borgello Gauntlets for me:D! I`ll be waiting for them to april, but They will be perfect:)!
About Mitten gauntlets posted on the beginning - I`ve talked about them with their maker, he showed me his inspiration.
[ Linked Image ]
You had right, they`re from XVI century, altough they have some similarities with transitional age gauntlets.
Hi I'm looking to get a new pair of gauntlets, but your picture above (15-16c gauntlets) has me a bit concerned that perhaps the ones I want are too late?
I've currently got a wrecked pair of second hand hour glass gauntlets (2nd hand and battered when I got them 11years ago when I started reenactment) the fingers have been replaced with maile and they have all but completely disintergrated!
I really really like some I've seen on both the chech stall and St George Armourys (my favourite example) of mittened gauntlets where the fingers are detailed onto the plates, so they look like fingered gauntlets, from the above picture it looks like either the 1500-10 pic or later.
I cover 1415-1475 roughly with doing the odd later show and the odd 1066 too (just maille mittens for then) so are the fingerlooking mittens too late for me?
thanks D[/img]
I've currently got a wrecked pair of second hand hour glass gauntlets (2nd hand and battered when I got them 11years ago when I started reenactment) the fingers have been replaced with maile and they have all but completely disintergrated!
I really really like some I've seen on both the chech stall and St George Armourys (my favourite example) of mittened gauntlets where the fingers are detailed onto the plates, so they look like fingered gauntlets, from the above picture it looks like either the 1500-10 pic or later.
I cover 1415-1475 roughly with doing the odd later show and the odd 1066 too (just maille mittens for then) so are the fingerlooking mittens too late for me?
thanks D[/img]
Dom,
Could you clarify which gauntlets you are looking at? Finger gaunts are some of the earliest anf also some of the latest. They run the entire use of armour really but they change so to help I need a better idea what gaunts you are interested in. You time frame is pretty large as well. Do you focus on late 100 YW or the War of the Roses?
RPM
Could you clarify which gauntlets you are looking at? Finger gaunts are some of the earliest anf also some of the latest. They run the entire use of armour really but they change so to help I need a better idea what gaunts you are interested in. You time frame is pretty large as well. Do you focus on late 100 YW or the War of the Roses?
RPM
War of the Roses mainly but also do Agincourt and other odd earlier ones. but techinically WotR.
Here are some photos of the type I'm on about (I think these are the Chech* ones from Tewekesbury market not sure, I know their not as nice as the ones I really like from St George Armouries.)
*how do you spell check, chezch, chezk, chech, cezch, I don't know mind is blank
Attachment: 76.93 KB
Attachment: 58.99 KB
Attachment: 108.27 KB
Attachment: 98.64 KB
Here are some photos of the type I'm on about (I think these are the Chech* ones from Tewekesbury market not sure, I know their not as nice as the ones I really like from St George Armouries.)
*how do you spell check, chezch, chezk, chech, cezch, I don't know mind is blank
Attachment: 76.93 KB Attachment: 58.99 KB Attachment: 108.27 KB Attachment: 98.64 KBlooking at that now I can see the pictures clearly I think the one in the book might be st george armouries and the ones in my hand are by the chechs I could be wrong though.
It's spelled czech. :)
Thanks, I knew it had a 'Z' in it somewhere?!
Looks like post 1465 to me. Maybe post 1475 even. Looks very much like one I have seen before but cannot recall it at the moment.
If yo want something that you can use for WotR and Agincourt you will likely need to use an earlier one as these ones are much later than Agincourt.
RPM
If yo want something that you can use for WotR and Agincourt you will likely need to use an earlier one as these ones are much later than Agincourt.
RPM
Richard,
I'm loving the Symon Felbrygge monument, especially the gauntlets.
Does anyone know of any armourers making something like them?
Have fun!
Cole
I'm loving the Symon Felbrygge monument, especially the gauntlets.
Does anyone know of any armourers making something like them?
Have fun!
Cole
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