Good Day. I have read that the store rooms of museums are filled with mediocre swords. The experts who are privileged to visit these stores have claimed that the blades that see the limelight were made for important, or wealthy noblemen. The rest do not see the light of day, and are many. I have searched for images of these swords that were supplied to the basic warrior, which very well might have been a menial farmer or labourer. I can't find anything online, and I am a newbie who does not own a lot of historical literature. I would like to initiate a conversation about these plain swords, and would love to see some facts or images of them. It is said that the carbon content and hardness was all over the place. Does anybody have info or pictures of these menial blades that likely were the mainstay of medieval warfare?

Thank you, and please excuse my lack of education.

Randy.

Yes that would be interesting and I would be curious to see if one would see some surprising things like complex or very early complex guard at earlier periods than we assume they where common: So " soldiers " swords do seem to have knuckle bows or finger rings or Z shaped guards at a time when most sword associated with Knights or Nobles seemed to almost all be of the simple cross type.

I could be completely wrong about the above based on only some swords seen in the Del Tin line of early falchions, back swords or
" infantry swords ".

Link to Kult of Athena general Del Tin page as it's more efficient than linking to multiple swords on that page, just scroll down and you will see a few swords that are described as infantry sword etc ...
http://www.kultofathena.com/deltin.asp

I sort of speculate that the lowly soldier, being less well armoured or not armoured at all and specifically rarely using gauntlets, would find a more protective guard with better hand protection useful.

If we could see all those munitions swords being stored in sub-basements of Museums we might find some types we are not even aware of ?

This thread may be of some interest.

http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=20277

Thinking broadly of "medieval era", I think we can progress from something like "Dark Ages" and Carolingian era, when swords were objects of status (a vast numerical majority of the recently found English-Saxon hoard objects being sword fittings and belt buttons/pyramids being of gold with much garnet cloisonne and elaborate decoration).

Through the 14th century, when "basic" warriors were career professionals, pay scale is hard to equate to anything modern. But military campaign indenture or contract fees (discussion of this can be found in books such as the "Last Knight", by Norman Cantor) about were on par with median pay for reasonably well paid construction workers. If you think about the construction profession today, their tools are typically not gold gilded or decorative in non functional ways, but are typically high quality in terms of durability, design ergonomics, and performance. I would expect similar of military profession tools just as we see that today soldiers' gear in wealthy nations is of high quality, even if it is not elaborately ornate.

I often find useful to explain the cost and value of a sword in the middle age to paragon it to the value of an automobile during the '900 in the European society: except the very first prototypes, at the start it (the automobile) was reserved as a status symbol or for the ones who absolutely need it (like the army and some professions, like the medics). Nowadays pratically everyone can afford one, from a Fiat Panda of the '98, bought only to go to work, to a Ferrari FX, an auto that you buy but can't drive home.

Its the same for swords: from very costly items, reserved to the one that can, or need to, buy one, to popular weapons produced in every range of prices.

OT: guess what auto I drive? :D

Wow! Thank you all for those directions. That is plenty for me to start learning about this. I do not have the knowledge to discuss this, but will take this to begin, and try to get some books.

Apologies for missing Sarge's topic, which is similar.
Thanks again.

Just like new armour there were several grades of weapons around the market. In London in the 14th for example swords can range from a few pence to a pound. They are all right off the ship so to speak so one can only assume they are of different quality. That said maybe one was just very simple and the other very nice, who knows. My guess is that it includes the actualy blade quality itself but the accounts do not say for certain. Guilds to a certain point do make sure a MINIMUM quality is met but that does not mean they are excellent blades.

RPM

I really don't have any thoughts, per se. On the OP but maybe it's worth noting that guilds really weren't so well established until the 14th. C.

Who knows if this increased control of the craft would have been relatable to the quality of the arms. Certainly, it does appear that as early as the Vikings there was a drive to provide some kind of recognizable standard.

p.s. In my researches I found a will describing 'an old sword' worth 1d (one penny). The most basic English soldier of the time was paid 3d per day, and trained archers were often paid 6d per day. So at that time in England an archer could have afforded to buy 6 swords every day! Swords could be got cheap, there was no need or demand for any sword maker to be making crap swords.

But making swords is better for the health than using them. Make a mistake at the forge and you start over. Make a mistake in the field and, hey, there go your intestines.

Must have been a lot of really crappy old swords available to buy back then (well, not too different from today, eh?) :p

As for me, I'll take an Albion, thanks!