Many of us are familiar with the great helm of Edward of Woodstock, known as the Black Prince. It's been discussed here before, including in this thread.

What I'd love to see, though, are any photos of the helm minus its crest. Howard Curtis published this sketch in his book 2,500 Years of European Helmets, but it's the only image I've seen of the helm without its crest. I'd love to see an actual photo of it sans crest if anyone has anything like that. :)

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I'll try one more time on this request. :) Anyone have any photos of this helm minus its crest?

Evidentally, Sir James Mann wrote a book titled The Funeral Achievements of Edward the Black Prince according to LibraryThing. I would assume the picture you want would be in this book, but I can't find any more information on it.

It may be worth $4.49 to find out! :)

http://www.myArmoury.com/books/item.B000ITQ4DA.html

I've sent a quick email and PM to Todd Hawkins to see if the book does indeed contain pictures of the helm without adornment.

Scott and Jonathan,
Thanks! That's very helpful, actually. I may have to pick that book up.

I just broke down and ordered the book. :)

So much for self control. :lol:

Chad and Scott,

I have three books based on the Black Prince (including The Funeral Achievements of Edward the Black Prince), and after re-checking all three, there are no pictures of his Great Helm without the crest on.

I've read in various articles that the top of the helm had the same conical top as the Pembridge Helm.

I've attached two pictures from of a custom remake of both helms by Valentine Armouries. His remake shows the helm without a crest. I don't know if he had an un-crested pictures to model from, or if he just went with assumption of how the lines would follow to the top of the helm, while taking into consideration the fact that it had to fit over the conical Basinet beneath.

You might want to send an e-mail to Robert at Valentine Armouries, and see if he has any pictures of the helm he used in production that doesn't include the crest.

Also; the book "The Funeral Achievements of Edward the Black Prince" is very well written by Sir James Mann, but only includes pictures of the re-created Achievements and not the originals. If you are looking for pictures of the original Achievements then I would recommend "The Black Prince" by David R. Cook, which can currently be purchased online at the Canterbury Cathedral gift shop.

I hope this helps.

Todd

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Here are some pics I was sent by a good buddy :) . They're from the book "The Times of Edward the Black Prince. Replicas of his achievements. Knights of the garter, past and present." They confirm that unlike the Pembridge helm, the Black Prince's helm is made of three pieces: a conical skull piece and the front and back plates. The Pembridge helm is also of 3 pieces, but is put together differently. It has a crown plate riveted to a tapering cone, which is riveted to a less tapering cone.

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Front of the Black Prince's helm

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Side of the Black Prince's helm

For comparison, here is the Pembridge helm.

A view from the front (mostly):

[ Linked Image ]

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From Howard Curtis' 2,500 Years of European Helmets

Nice! :)

Goes to show that the line drawing in Howard Curtis' book is very accurate.

Chad, do you have any idea where a copy of "The Times of Edward the Black Prince. Replicas of his achievements. Knights of the garter, past and present." can be found?

My copy of The Times of Edward the Black Prince. Replicas of His Achievements. Knights of the Garter, Past and Present arrived today from across the pond. :)

Here's a full page scan of the helms for comparison.

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