inside a recent topic about rapiers i have asked Nathan Robinson to post some examples of symmetrical hilt, he has tolds me that there are some surviving examples of swept hilt completely symmetrical but i have never seen it before, if someone can provide me some pics it would be great. thank you.

i'm looking only for symmetrical swept hilt, not pappenheimer or similar.

I want to point out to those reading this topic that the discussion of symmetry is front-to-back. Most hilts hat people call symmetrical are only mostly symmetrical and many have horizontally recurved quillons or other details that do not make them fully symmetrical. Most have some element or another that makes them non-symmetrical but still quite usable in either hand should somebody actually need to use it that way.

Having said that, I'll put some thoughts below. I don't have time now to research, source, scan, and post such things currently but here is food for thought off the top of my head: (edit: didn't realize you were only looking for "swept hilt" variety so much of this is off-topic for you)

Consider the earlier Norman hilt types like Types 15-20. Many of these do not have side rings, and when they do, there are examples with inner and outer side rings. Some have only vertically recurved quillons (in the plane of the blade). Etc.

Look at the various so-called "Pappenheimer" hilts (Norman 64-67, or so)... some are very nearly symmetrical. Also look at the various dish hilts, cup-hilts (of course), and the like.

I've seen at least one sample of the hilt with the "spiral" type of side ring (Norman Type 70??) that has the same "spiral" on the inside and as it does on the outside. (Sort of like this) I think this style has struck a chord with modern makers, as it seems to have been replicated a lot.

Also, check out the hilt styles with multiple rings (Norman Type 68 I think) such as this example:

[ Linked Image ]

I spent 5 minutes looking on myArmoury.com to find samples that sort of show some examples with varying degrees of symmetry:

http://www.myArmoury.com/albums/photo/807.html
http://www.myArmoury.com/albums/photo/661.html
http://www.myArmoury.com/albums/photo/690.html
http://www.myArmoury.com/albums/photo/683.html
http://www.myArmoury.com/albums/photo/693.html
http://www.myArmoury.com/albums/photo/697.html
http://www.myArmoury.com/albums/photo/783.html
http://www.myArmoury.com/albums/photo/800.html
http://www.myArmoury.com/albums/photo/832.html
http://www.myArmoury.com/albums/photo/863.html
http://www.myArmoury.com/albums/photo/872.html

(this topic acknowledges the difficulty in determining exactly what constitutes a "rapier")

Check out Armi Bianche Italiane images 557 & 558.

My scanner doesn't work with my new computer or else I'd post the images. Hopefully someone can help us out.

I was searching mainly for stuff like the "spiral hilt" posted by Nathan (thank you for doing that i had missed it on the album section), of course pappenheimer, dish, and multiple rings style hilts fit my description, but i'm looking for classical two or three ring style hilt that show symmetry, just because on the marketplace section i have seen a beautifull example for sale posted by Mr.Perino of a rapier made by Phoenix Metal Creations, i never seen one like that i'd like to take a look at some historycal examples.